Barell Weight

[allen newell]

The barrel weight makings on my dad's 16 ga VH parker show 3-6 which I take to mean 3 lbs 6 ounces. Correct? When I weighed the barrels on my digital scale which I'm confident is accurate to within 1-2 ounces, the scale showed 2lbs - 6 oz. These barrels are untouched. What am I missing?

[Gary Laudermilch]

The stamped weight, in your case 3 lb. 6 oz. is the weight of the barrels before the barrel finisher does his work contouring the barrels and final finish. It is not abnormal for a considerable amount of weight be removed in this process, again, in your case 1 lb.

[allen newell]

Thanks Gary, I'm breathing much better now!

[Brian Dudley]

There is also been recent discussion supporting that the weight stamps could indicate the weight of the barrels plus forend iron, since many who weigh their barrels with forend on come to within a couple ounces of the stamped weight.

I personally also beleive this is likely to be the case. It would give the workers putting a gut together an idea of what the front half of the gun woukd weight when putting it together with a back half to get a target weight and balance point for a given gun.

[Linn Matthews]

Seems easy to check out that idea

[Wayne Owens]

I have weighed numerous barrels with the forends and none of them weighed the same as the stamped barrel weight. Most weighed between 1 and 3.5 ounces different than the stamped weight.

[Dave Suponski]

Not true. I have a set of unstruck barrels here and they weigh exactly as stamped before striking.

[allen newell]

I just weighed the barrels with the forend on and it brought the total up to 3 lbs. Still 6 oz shy of the stamped weight.

So Dave, how would you account for the weight difference on my Dad's 16? The barrels are untouched and original. Just curious.

[Dean Romig]

It makes no sense at all that Parker Bros would stamp the weight on the barrel flat of a set of unfinished barrels (that hadn't even been bored yet and that weren't even fitted with a forend yet)... with the weight of the barrels and forend..... :dh:






.

[Michael Moffa]

May I propose a theory? The barrels are in inventory waiting on an order. Removing metal costs money so if I wanted to keep my profit margin in line I would pick the lightest barrel unstruck but of the correct length to fulfill the order. Spending and extra hour on a VH barrel makes no sense but it does on a AAHE. This info would help out production turn a profit.

[Steve Huffman]

When were the ribs attached Before striking or after ? I think what I want to ask is were the ribs put on before any striking ? I would think after they were struck and ribs fitted would make for a smoother solder joint .Therefore how did they know what unstruck weight would be ?

[Brian Dudley]

I habe a set of new parker barrels here that are bored, but not chambered. They have bottom ribs on them, but no top rib or rib extension and they are weight stamped.

[Steve Huffman]

I habe a set of new parker barrels here that are bored, but not chambered. They have bottom ribs on them, but no top rib or rib extension and they are weight stamped.

Does the weight match the stamped ?

[Dean Romig]

The ribs were attached before striking.



.

[Brian Dudley]

Does the weight match the stamped ?

This set I mention is stamped 4 - 2.

When I put it on the scale along with a top rib and rib extension the weight is 3 lbs. 14 oz.

When I add in an unfinished forend iron, the weight comes up to 4 lbs. 2 oz.

I am just providing the info on this particular New (unfinished) barrel set that I have here.


In previous discussions here, which I was not involved in, it was suggested that MAYBE the stamped weight factored in the typical weight of a FE iron into the mix. a number of people weighed their barrels with complete forends attached and the weights came relatively close to the stamped numbers.
This is what leads me to think that there MIGHT be something to this idea... But... I wasn't there of course so that is all I can say.

[Gary Laudermilch]

See http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=17928

Imagine how much barrel weight had to be removed in the contouring/finishing process. A significant amount I suspect. I also suspect that barrel making in those days was not an exacting process. It was up to the skilled barrel finisher to make a set fit the parameters for a given gun. Some required quite a bit of metal removal and some not so much. The weight stamp probably helped with the selection of a set of barrels for a given application, minimizing the work required. Even back in those days time = money.

[Dave Suponski]

I will post pictures tonight.

[James L. Martin]

I weighted my Parkers barrels + forend with the following results
marked weight
VH 20 26" 3 3 .1
VH 20 28" 3-3 3 2.6
VHE 20 30" 3-7 3 8
VHE 12 30" 4 3 12.9
GH 12 26" 3-10 3 4.9
DH 12 26" 3-9 3 5.8

The 3 20 ga guns were almost spot on but all 3 12ga were light

[James L. Martin]

That last post did not post as I typed it, the first # for weight was the marked weight after that the real weight Jim

[Michael Moffa]

Other than the serial number, is the weight information the most consistent set of marks stamped into the gun? I'm talking early to late production consistency.

[Dave Suponski]

A picture is worth a thousand words. These barrels are rough bored and not chambered. The weigh within a quarter ounce of the weight stamped. Enjoy...

[Brian Dudley]

Thanks Dave. That is what we needed was to check a truely unfinish (or raw) barrel set.

[Michael Moffa]

No dolls head.

[David Noble]

Were the dolls head installed later?
I suppose Dave's unfinished barrels could be for a Trojan?

[Dean Romig]

Yup, intended for a Trojan - hey, wait a minute, were any Trojans built on the 1 1/2 frame size?
It doesn't have the Trojan forend lug either....

Dave - are those the barrels you got from Austin?

(Hmmm... no barrel steel designation yet...:whistle:)






.

[Dave Suponski]

Yes they are Dean. The dolls head extension was fitted later by the first soft fitter when mating the barrels to the frame.

[Brian Dudley]

Typical Parker rib extentions were about 2" long with the dolls head being part of the extension. They were screwed down to the barrel and soldered.

I would be interested in seeing the top side of those unfinished barrels to see what is going on in the rib extention area.

46433

[allen newell]

I'm still trying to understand why the stamped barrel weight on my 16 VH is so different from the actual weight as I have already posted. The barrels are untouched and all original. This 16 Vh is serial # 221866 and was produced in 1927. This may be far fetched but is it possible that after years of lead blowing through the barrel, that there could be sufficient wear and tear on the barrels?

[Dean Romig]

No.






.

[allen newell]

Thanks Dean, that's about as succinct as it gets! LOL

[Dean Romig]

Allen, what is the barrel length on your VH 16?
If they are 26" it is quite possible that when putting that gun together a longer set of unfinished barrels were pulled from stock and shortened. That would account for probably about 1/4 lb. or more. What is the frame size? If a 0-frame a good amount of shaping and filing would have been necessaelry.

Just a few thoughts.






.

[allen newell]

28 inches, frame size is 1 1/2. Dean, the enclosed picture was taken in 1936 in Hooksett, NH where my grandfather who is on the right and holding this 16 ga VH purchased a farm for relaxation (He lived in Dedham, Mass). That's Harold Hemming standing to his left. Harold shot a Fox Sterlingworth. Can anyone guess the mfg of the car and date?

[Gary Laudermilch]

Looks to me like he had good taste in guns - and dogs!

[allen newell]

He did Gary. He only owned setters. as did my dad and as have I. Incidentally, I have second pick out of two setter litters early summer.

[Dean Romig]

Packard about 1930? There's gotta be a straight-8 under that loooong hood.

Well, the 28" barrels and the 1 1/2 frame blows holes in my theory, but....

A 1 1/2 frame Parker was normally used for a 12 gauge...
A LOT of metal would have been removed in order to contour the exterior down to a manageable-weight 16 gauge. I'll bet it has some considerable 'swamping' of the barrels.






.

[Dean Romig]

What kennel/breeder are you getting the pup from?




.

[edgarspencer]

Can anyone guess the mfg of the car and date?

Very Packardish, maybe a 236 Sedan

[allen newell]

I do know that my grandfather had the first Dusenberg in Dedham, Ma. But I don't think.
it's a Dusenberg in the picture. It could be a Packard but that's just a guess on my part.

Dean, my pup is coming out of 2 litters that Alene Levasseur is raising. She's one of the guides at Markover in Ct. I've hunted over her dogs with her and other guides there who have dogs she's bred and raised. I couldn't tell you any more about the breeding lines but I can tell you her setters are a delight to hunt over, very biddable, great conformation, steady to wing and all around make great family dogs. My lady friend has just informed me that the pup will be able to sleep in the same bed but I think I'll draw the line there!! LOL

[Dean Romig]

I do know that my grandfather had the first Dusenberg in Dedham, Ma. But I don't think.
it's a Dusenberg in the picture. It could be a Packard but that's just a guess on my part.

Dean, my pup is coming out of 2 litters that Alene Levasseur is raising. She's one of the guides at Markover in Ct. I've hunted over her dogs with her and other guides there who have dogs she's bred and raised. I couldn't tell you any more about the breeding lines but I can tell you her setters are a delight to hunt over, very biddable, great conformation, steady to wing and all around make great family dogs. My lady friend has just informed me that the pup will be able to sleep in the same bed but I think I'll draw the line there!! LOL


A word of advice - "You'll never keep them down on the farm after they've seen Paree."

Once they are allowed access to the 'big bed' they'll always try to get back on.... (words of experience):whistle: (it ain't so bad after they've been bathed)






.

[allen newell]

My last setter was allowed on the bed when she reached 10 yrs of age. Prior to that she slept on her dog bed at the foot of the bed. i am getting more reasonable as I get older though. LOL

[John Dallas]

Our dog isn't allowed in the bedroom, let alone on the bed. She doesn't know any differently, and waits patiently for me to come out of the BR in the morning. It does make me mad, tho, when others bring their dogs, and let them sleep on their bed in the guest room.

[Dave Suponski]

Isn't this thread about barrels?

[Bill Murphy]

CRATE, CRATE. Once they fall in love with the CRATE, they'll never miss the bed again. Oh, I'm sorry, you were talking about your dog.

[Michael Moffa]

To get back to barrel weights, The spring 2008 issue of the PP has an article by Dr. Hogan on Deming, quality control and its affect on barrel weights. He also mentions an article by Ron Kirby in the DGJ on a related topic.

[Michael Moffa]

Actually it is the summer 2008 for the article not spring. Sorry for the confusion.

[nick balzano]

Mr. Martin i envy you, it must be nice to have all those wonderful Parkers. Congrats and God Bless.