This gun did not letter with a Silvers Pad.

[Craig Larter]

I thought I would post some pictures of a CHE that does not letter with a Silvers Pad. The gun has a very old Silvers and I decided to replace it but keep the old pad. Anyhow, I have posted a few pictures below which show the butt end of the stock. As you can see no screw holes are evident from a skeleton butt (which would have been standard on a CHE). I believe the Silvers pad was factory installed but for what ever reason was never documented. I have also included a picture of a DH that was made during the same time period that letters with a Silvers pad and shows the same inletting----looks like the same fitting as the CHE. So what say you could this be an undocumented item or aftermarket?

[Greg Baehman]

What does the letter say in terms of LOP and what does it measure now with the pad? What does the letter say about the original price of the gun? That, too; may provide a clue as pads were a $5 option.

[Daryl Corona]

Looks factory to me Craig. I have a number of D grades, some with skeletal and some with a Silvers and a spur like yours. From your picture there seems to be a slight curve on the butt, a good sign that it was'nt cut.

[Russ Jackson]

Craig ,I would say original ,I just purchased a PH that was sent back to the factory for a Silvers Pad documented by a letter and it is pretty much identical to yours ,I don't have pictures yet as I just received the gun yesterday but will take a few this evening and post them !

[Dean Romig]

That's a tough one Craig... The position of the silver oval would seem to indicate a longer "belly" of the stock - but not a fast and hard rule.

Those screws are certainly period correct and factory correct.

In contrast, here is a DHE with a factory Silvers pad and attested to in the PGCA research letter I have on it.



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[Steve Huffman]

Strange no Widows Peak or was that common ?

[Russ Jackson]

This is a PH Grade that letters that it was sent back for a Silvers Pad and all seems correct including the LOP .

[Richard Flanders]

My late VHE20 has a Silvers or maybe a similar noshock? pad but has two sets of screw holes in the wood, indicating it's not original.

[Dean Romig]

Strange?.... It's original.

But, in all honesty, the gun sat in inventory for four years. Apparently the twenty-eight gauge wasn't so popular in 1908, or '09 or '10 or '11. Finally, in 1912 an order came in for a ladies gun with a stock length of 13 1/2" over a Silvers pad. So, the lack of a spurred butt is explained in the shortened stock wood. But take note of the slight curve of the butt despite the shortened stock.






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[Russ Jackson]

Dean ,she's a beauty ,do you shoot it with the short LOP or is it the Boss's 28 Gauge ! I wish my Boss would shoot but she just never got interested !

[Dean Romig]

No Russ, I don't shoot it at all and Kathy's 28 is a Repro.






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[Craig Larter]

My CHE letters with a lop of 14" and that what it measures with the pad. The drops also conform to the records. There is no mention of the pad, nothing in the price to indicate there was an extra charge. I would expect to see screw holes if a skeleton butt plate was removed. I seems records were not always complete and accurate. Thanks for everyones input. Craig

[Dean Romig]

I agree with you Craig - somehow the addition of the pad slipped by in the record keeping. It all looks original to me.






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[Brian Dudley]

Those are unfitted Parker buttplate screws. The same screws that would have been used for a DHBP or the top screw on an SSBP. They just would have had their heads filed in those applications.
Every silvers pad that i have had to remove that was factory installed had those same unfitted screws holding it on. That, combined with the fact that there is no additional screw holes in the wood suggests it is factory installed.

[greg conomos]

Nothing sadder than a D Grade 28 not being fired!

[Bill Murphy]

Craig, figuring the length of skeleton buttplate screws and adding that measurement to the remaining wood of the stock and assuming the original stock with a skeleton would be 14" would give you the answer. However, I never go that far in calculating the originality of a very original looking gun. I have a very late high condition VHE 20 with a pad. I would like to examine the butt for signs of original buttplate screws, but I have decided to leave well enough alone and assume it is an original pad.

[greg conomos]

I know what you mean. I'm always a bit restrained when someone disassembled all or part of a gun to inspect it for originality. I don't touch a screw on my guns unless there is a pressing need.

[Craig Larter]

I am of the same mind set with respect to messing with a gun that is original. The new pad will use the old screws and no new holes will be needed. Shooting the gun with the hardened pad would eventually destroy it. So I will be kept the original pad with the gun and it could easily be put back on as it was not destroyed when removed. Thanks everyone again for your input. Craig

[Dean Romig]

Craig, were you able to remove the plugs unharmed?





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[Craig Larter]

Dean: Yes amazing they just popped out, even though they are as hard as rock. The rubber plugs must shrink under-size as they ages.

[Bill Zachow]

Just for info, in the early 1900s, the Silvers Pad was priced at $4. Twin ivory sights were $1. At least that was the documented charge on my 1909 PH 8 gauge.

[Dean Romig]

That's right, from the records I've seen Bill.






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[Russ Jackson]

Just for info, in the early 1900s, the Silvers Pad was priced at $4. Twin ivory sights were $1. At least that was the documented charge on my 1909 PH 8 gauge.

Bill ,I would love to see pictures of your PH Grade 8 Gauge if you wouldn't mind taking the time to post pictures !

[Dean Romig]

I have a few pictures of it that Bill sent me if Bill can't find his pics.





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[Russ Jackson]

Look forward to seeing them ,I hope Charlie's following along on this thread you know his addiction for the 8 Gauge !

[charlie cleveland]

i m following russ cannot wait for these pictures...charlie

[Rich Anderson]

Craig I have a CHE 20 (also a Damascus barreled gun) that letters with a Silvers pad. Mine looks like Deans gun in the respect that there is no widows peak. My original pad was in horrible shape, crushed and decrepit in every respect. I did just as you have and replaced it but preserved the original. Unfortunately one of the plugs had fallen out somewhere. It's undoubtly in a Grouse covert in the Upper Peninsula:)

[charlie cleveland]

gives you a good excuse to go grouse hunting and look for that plug....charlie

[greg conomos]

It's not Bill's PH 8 but here's my GH 8 which letters with the pad as shown

Asking Bill for photos is like asking the best looking girl in your class to the prom. It'd be nice but it ain't gonna happen...

[Craig Budgeon]

The inlet spur is an indication that your gun was built that way and since C grades were offered with recoil pads at no additional cost I suspect the original chose the pad. You do have a problem, however, and that is that the Silvers #4 rifle pad does have a spur but it doesn't begin to conform to the spur on the CHE or the PH and they look different also. The #3 Silvers pad is flat and that may be an option if you are willing remove some wood. Galazan stocks the #3 Silvers pads but I don't recommend the cheaper copies they offer as the mounting holes are predrilled and are not always concentric with the plug holes. I also recommend you sand the back of the #3 pad flat for best mounting results. I have also removed the spurred black portion of the recoil pad and attached new rubber to it with high strength clear epoxy which worked well, but it was on a Damascus gun which I never took afield. Good luck with your endeavor!

[Dean Romig]

Asking Bill for photos is like asking the best looking girl in your class to the prom. It'd be nice but it ain't gonna happen...

Methinks you're confusing Bills... Mr. Zachow has always been generous in sharing photos.






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[Dean Romig]

There are five color pictures of Bill Zachow's very fine 8 gauge PH in the Winter 2011 Issue of Parker Pages. Thank You Bill.






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[Bill Zachow]

You gentlemen, and especially Dean, are very kind. My wife will take more pictures and if we can figure it out, post them here.

[Brian Dudley]

Bill, this is the 8g that you purchased from our mutual friend in Rochester?

[greg conomos]

Sorry, you are right I confused Bills

[Bill Zachow]

Brian, yes, the Batzold brothers. Great guys . Got the gun at the Albany gun show in the late 80s early 90s. Have to look it up to be sure. For a gun made in 1909 and made for waterfowling in the South, it is in fabulous condition. Perfect bores, wood finish and even the barrel twist finish is excellent. You don't see many with twin ivories. Sad to say, I will,probably put it on the market in the next year or two as I don't want mywife Sylvia to have to worry about converting it to cash.

[Craig Larter]

Bill: I sent you a PM. Craig Larter

[Brian Dudley]

Yup, the Batzolds dont deal in junk. I was over at John's today.