Del Grego Refinished Guns

[Bill Murphy]

What are the comments on Del Grego refinished guns in minty condition? I am not asking about values, I am just asking about whether you like them and whether you would like to have one in your collection.

[Austin J Hawthorne Jr.]

I have a 20 gauge Trojan that I am told is a Del Grego restoration. I'm very fond of the rust blued barrels, the case color, and the checking job. I'm less than thrilled with the stock refinish. It's an attractive color but appears muddy with no wood grain showing through.
Still happy to have it in my collection.

[Mike Franzen]

I have a SC SBT that I believe was redone by Del Grego. It was gun of the month on the home page a while back. There are pics of it in my albums. I like their work. They're case colors are strong but appear to be cyanide. I've met and talked with Larry and I would trust him to do any work.

[Ed Blake]

I have a DH I bought a couple years ago that was redone in 1969 and remained unshot until I got it. I have a letter from Mr. DelGrego to the then-owner explaining what he did. I think the charge was about $200 soup to nuts.

[Greg Baehman]

A few years back I had a DelGrego refinished-to-mint 12-ga. VHE, 30" F/F on a 2-frame that was converted to a straight grip and restocked with an appropriate-to-grade piece of American black walnut and a checkered butt. Wonderful workmanship, but despite my best efforts, I could never warm up to those gaudy cyanide colors. A good friend of mine wanted her more than I, so it went to him. He had the chokes opened and a Silver's pad put on, shot it for awhile and sold it to another mutual friend that has an obsession of changing inventory on a near weekly basis. It was used as trade bait shortly thereafter and that's when I lost track of it.

[Pat Dugan]

I have a DHE 2O GAUGE MADE IN 1926
IT HAS 28 INCH BARELLS AND LOOKS
LIKE IT LEFT FACTORY. IT HAS THE
CYANIDE COLORS, ALL NEW SCREWS
, IT HAS NEW SILVERS PAD FROM ENGLAND
WHEN YOU PICK IT UP IT FEELS LIKE A 28
GAUGE AND I AM THINKING IT WAS MADE FOR A LADY.

[Pat Dugan]

serial number of above 20 DHE
219184

[Pat Dugan]

more

[Pat Dugan]

last

[Daren Erickson]

I own Three:

16ga "0" Frame SG
20ga "0" Frame SG
20ga "0" Fram PG

These are my hunting guns and are shot all season at Quail, Chukar, Sharptail, and Pheasants. They go back in February for a good cleaning and tuneup. I have more "vintage" guns but these are my baby's...I couldn't ask for more.

Larry always has the time to chat, does good work and is true to his word. A true piece of americana!

D

[CraigThompson]

Of course he does very nice work yadda yadda yadda .

But to be perfectly honest I'd rather have a gun that's say 30% in honest used but not abused shape over one that's been restored/reconditioned .

I had a friend tell me once about some folks that reconverted flintlocks , he said anytime you did that you were destroying history and I suppose to a Civil War collector that's 100% true . And I kinda view Parker's , Fox's , Smith's and a good many other old quality guns the same way .

But that's my opinion and like a particular body part everyone has ONE !

[David Noble]

Had a BHE 12ga that was really a beautiful piece. All work was top notch.
Currently have a VH 410 that is an early DG restoration. It has the cyanide case colors that are incorrect for the period of the gun. The mostly unengraved receiver really shows the vivid tiger stripe case coloring and is not as pleasing to me as the original Parker bone charcoal colors. Also on this receiver the DG polishing line at the bolsters is distinctly obvious when held at certain angles.
I have no idea what this gun looked like before it was restored but I think I might have liked it better left alone.
I personally prefer honest original guns to restorations but not to the point of exclusion.

[greg conomos]

I had them re-do a gun for me around 1994. I had no idea about different case colors at the time. Their work is 'top notch' especially in how they brought the wood back. I'd rather the case colors were 'proper' but I don't lose a lot of sleep over it.

[charlie cleveland]

i do not have one of their guns in my collection but ive looked at lots of them on the site here from what ive seen i would not mind having one in my little collection of parkers...charlie

[allen newell]

About 8 years or more ago I had DG restore my grandfathers 16 ga VH. New wood, re-case etc. A total restoration. After receiving it back from DG and shooting it, I noticed some gray substance oozing out between the frame and buttstock. Also, base plate screws weren't timed and hadn't been replaced as the original one's were buggered up. Also base plate was not flush seated in the frame. Sent the gun back to DG. Gun came back with base plate flush, new timed screws but the heads of the screws had a copper luster to them. Called DG and was told to rub them with an eraser. Go figure. Checkering is good on buttstock but border is not period correct for this 1924 Parker. Gray matter still oozes a bit. Colors on base plate have worn off with very little use. I use Brad Bachelder now and very satisfied.

[Mills Morrison]

My favorite Parker is an older Del Grego refurb and it was well done. It is obviously Del Grego and obviously not factory original, but it doesn't bother me

[Kevin McCormack]

What are the comments on Del Grego refinished guns in minty condition? I am not asking about values, I am just asking about whether you like them and whether you would like to have one in your collection.

First, let me say that I have read through this entire thread and I would like to personally thank each poster for spelling the Del Grego's name CORRECTLY!!! One thing that drives me crazy is seeing it spelled, 'del Greco', ;Delgrekko', 'El Grego', 'El Greco' (wasn't he a painter?).

As to the question of 99% plus Del Grego restored condition, Larry Sr. restored (including restocking) my very first Parker, the legendary #190737. The colors were wrong for the period (cyanide in 1921?), the beavertail likewise, etc., cut barrels and so on. If I had a chance to buy it back today I would, as it was my very first.

[Dean Romig]

The Del Grego - Runge high-grade upgrades, especially the .410s and 28 gauge guns are highly collectible and represent what would have been done in the last years of Remington's production of such guns.... because they were done by two of the last original Remington craftsmen... they can almost be called "original" Parkers for that very reason. To the eye, they are every bit as wonderful as the guns they were made to represent. I know of a Del Grego/Runge .410 BHE upgrade that will be coming to the auction market soon and it will garner some serious bidding!






.

[Mills Morrison]

I agree Dean. There was a Del Grego - Runge GH 28 gauge upgrade on here a few months ago that falls under "ones that got away"

That would make a great Parker Pages article. I would do it if I had access to the info.

[Dean Romig]

I think that would make a great technical article. Best idea would be to team up with Bill Murphy and Kevin McCormack and maybe others to make it a comprehensive colloquium on the subject... but I would prefer to limit it to "B" and above grades.





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[greg conomos]

I'm not looking to start an argument...but any 'upgrade' IMO is affixed with two stigmas. (stigmae?)

1) You had to 'consume' an original gun of some other grade to make it. In a few cases, like the beautiful C that Brian Dudley made, that's no issue. But when you are consuming any .410 of any grade, that's not so cool.

2) We're faced with the same old issue that it's a gun that has been 'touched', and heavily so, by non-Parker hands. If a person is not on the time clock at Parker when it was done, it's not Parker work.

That's my .02....

Here's a question that interests me - are there any documented examples of Parker having 'upgraded' a gun? I'm gonna narrow this to the specific instance of taking a gun which had been already sold and used and sending it back out as a higher grade, at the request of a customer. My guess is no but I'd like to hear any examples.

[Mills Morrison]

I agree with Greg. I will say that Del Grego and Runge were both former Parker employees (or Remington) and so guns they produced or upgraded would be as close to factory upgrades as you could get. They are also "what could have been" if Remington had not discontinued Parker production and kept production going at high standards, with some allowance for variations over time.

[edgarspencer]

I'm not looking to start an argument...but any 'upgrade' IMO is affixed with two stigmas. (stigmae?)

1) You had to 'consume' an original gun of some other grade to make it. In a few cases, like the beautiful C that Brian Dudley made, that's no issue. But when you are consuming any .410 of any grade, that's not so cool.

2) We're faced with the same old issue that it's a gun that has been 'touched', and heavily so, by non-Parker hands. If a person is not on the time clock at Parker when it was done, it's not Parker work.

That's my .02....

Here's a question that interests me - are there any documented examples of Parker having 'upgraded' a gun? I'm gonna narrow this to the specific instance of taking a gun which had been already sold and used and sending it back out as a higher grade, at the request of a customer. My guess is no but I'd like to hear any examples.

Two good points, and a good question. I vaguely remember there being records of a returned gun for additional cosmetic work.

[Bill Murphy]

Mills says he agrees with Greg, but I can't see that agreement in his post. Maybe Mills doesn't quite read Greg's post correctly. I can see both sides. I have a baggo Del Grego guns, but I would rather they were originals. However, they aren't. Someone has to own them, and mine are out of this world.

[Mills Morrison]

Well, these are interesting guns but original is preferable. How is that?

[edgarspencer]

What are the comments on Del Grego refinished guns in minty condition? I am not asking about values, I am just asking about whether you like them and whether you would like to have one in your collection.

I do not like them, and I have yet to see one I would like to have in my 'collection'. I have seen dozens over the years, on the walls of shops like the original Safari Outfitters, and have no recollection of having actually taken one down to fondle.
Pat Dugan's photos are perhaps the first 'Del Grego Gun' that I didn't dislike.
I have seen lots that had the firm's reworked, refinished, or replaced wood and did not form my opinion of the gun based on the wood, as it was usually good, or very good. There may have been a period where they had differing rust bluing techniques, but it has always come back to their case hardening practice that put me off. I guess if I'm being honest, I almost always equate cyanide hardening colors and DelGrego. It's very unfair of me to speak of the men, or their firm as I do, but I can't seem to disassociate the colors from the name. Does that make me a bad person?

[Pat Dugan]

my DelGrego 20 has soft cyanide case colors
but Asa Kelley and I bought one that was unfired 12 VH that had perfect screws that was lettered by The older DelGrego, in 1963.
It was the best example of deep cyanide tiger stripe colours that I have seen.
In 1984 went to see Otis Odom and there must have really been 1 million dollars of Parkers in his showroom. He at that time said he had sent hundreds of Parkers to the DelGrego family to refinish and upgrade.
He said most upgrades were done on small
gauges.

I wish I knew MORE about Otis but there are members that do and an article should be done on him

[edgarspencer]

I remember my dad saying Otis was the nicest man he never met. They spent hours on the phone, back when long distance was by the minute. He bought two Parkers from Otis, and several from Pete Harvey and Gary Herman.
Back when Bypass Surgery was a new thing, my dad had a quadruple and Otis called him at the Hospital, when he learned he was still there after 4 weeks. Thinking he would be home in a week, only to spend almost two weeks in the ICU, he became very depressed. Otis, Gary, and Pete all called him, and I think they were the guys most responsible for his recovery. This was 20 years before the PGCA, and I wish our organization was around back then. Dad would be 100 today.

[Bruce Day]

Several issues:

1. Del Grego's do not do their own color case hardening. They take them to a contractor in nearby Herkimer for cyanide process or more recently, to Turnbull for charcoal process if selected by the gun owner.
2. Case colors can be muted or removed by hand polishing over the course of an evening while watching television.
3. The color patterns of cyanide case colors depend on the technique of the person doing the work. Results range from near charcoal case colors to the discussed tiger stripes. The process uses a liquid bath and the tiger stripes result from multiple depth immersions. Similar to dyeing an Easter egg .

[Kevin McCormack]

Art Wheaton recently wrote and had published an article on Odis Odom. I forget whether it was in Shooting Sportsman, Double Gun Journal, or where? The article described his and Jay Bunting's last visit to Odis and the purchase of a nice Parker they had been chasing from him.

[Eric Eis]

Art Wheaton recently wrote and had published an article on Odis Odom. I forget whether it was in Shooting Sportsman, Double Gun Journal, or where? The article described his and Jay Bunting's last visit to Odis and the purchase of a nice Parker they had been chasing from him.

Kevin I get SS and I don't remember that article in there so I would suspect it was in DGJ. I would enjoy seeing that article.

[Mills Morrison]

It was in DGJ a few issues ago

[Jon Sheets]

For whatever it's worth, I like the work Del Grego did for me. Am I a purist? Certainly not, but he brought new life into a pair of old, worn guns (this Wallflower Trojan and an '01 VH 12) so they can face the next 100 years of service.

[Pat Dugan]

Jon

Incredible wood, and I love the straight stock

[Brian Dudley]

I would prefer to see checkering that at least somewhat, in the least bit, resembles original patterns, but hey... Thats just me...

And i sure hope that stock is reinforced somehow in the wrist. The grain goes right across it by the looks of it.

[Rich Anderson]

I'm not a fan of their case color process but would it deter me from buying one...no but I would do as Bruce suggested and mute the colors.

I had an Otis Odem gun that was a 28ga upgraded to a BHE and it was a nice gun. I currently have an AHE upgraded 28 two barrel set but I don't think Otis did this one. I think Bill Murphy knows the history of this one.

[Pete Lester]

I look at DelGrego restorations as really nice "shooters". I also think there are differences between older and newer restorations. I don't think anyone should look to have any restoration done to increase value, it won't, I think it should be done to prolong life into what are nice guns that were rode hard and put away wet. I have dealt with them directly and have had work done. I am most happy with my first and most personally nostalgic Parker, a 12ga Trojan I have had for 31 years. I should have taken some before pictures, 24 seasons of salt water hunts, boat rides chasing down crips, laying in muddy corn fields and hunting beaver ponds took it's toll. They brought it back with partial restoration as I left the frame alone.

FWIW If you do have a gun restored try to get some documentation of it. If you sell a gun to a gun store most of them know the name and think it's special resulting in a better trade/sale price.

Upgrades are another subject.

[Jon Sheets]

I would prefer to see checkering that at least somewhat, in the least bit, resembles original patterns, but hey... Thats just me...

And i sure hope that stock is reinforced somehow in the wrist. The grain goes right across it by the looks of it.

Del Grego didn't do the stock, just the metal. The stock is as purchased. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. I did in the article in the recent issue of Parker Pages, and have not altered it for the reasons stated in the article. Maybe someday it will go back to original.
I have relied heavily on this gun every season since 2005. It sees a lot of use, without any wrist problems so far. I appreciate your concern though.

[Daryl Corona]

Jon;
She's a 20ga. Parker and looks great with the stock. Hope you have many more seasons with her chasing "partridge" up north.

Nice article in PP by the way.

[Jon Sheets]

Thanks. The way this season went, they can only get better.
Thanks for the kind words about the article. Yes, it's a 20, light and lively.

[Chuck Bishop]

" Best idea would be to team up with Bill Murphy and Kevin McCormack and maybe others to make it a comprehensive colloquium on the subject"

Dean did you graduate from Have Ard?:rotf:

[Joe Dreisch]

A couple months ago, I bought a VH from my brother-in-law. He was told that it was Del Grego refinished. It has a stamped mark on the right barrel flat (just to the right of the unstruck weight marks). It is about a 5/16" circle with an L overtop a D G inside of it. I never heard anyone mention this mark and was wondering if it is a mark which was used by the Del Grego shop at any point in time. As to the gun, all the metal prep is beautifully done. All screws perfect and timed properly, wood finish is very nicely done. Barrel blue is great, but it has the tiger striped case colors (very vivid).
I tend to stick with original guns, but when this one was offered, I jumped on it. A bit snazzy, maybe, but when the colors wear off, the metal condition will still be quite nice.

[Dean Romig]

Dean did you graduate from Have Ard?:rotf:


Duh... Nope:whistle:






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[wayne goerres]

check out the B grade on collectors firearms item S6013. Del Grego restoration . Nothing matches the letter except the grade. Get a load of the mind blowing price. (they must be nuts).

[Hal Sheets]

For whatever it's worth, I like the work Del Grego did for me. Am I a purist? Certainly not, but he brought new life into a pair of old, worn guns (this Wallflower Trojan and an '01 VH 12) so they can face the next 100 years of service.

Jon, Can you show a photo of the colors on your VH 12, please ? I don't think all Del Grego colors are done the same and your two show that.

[Jon Sheets]

Sure. The colors on the VH are more subdued than the Trojan. Hope you can see that in the pictures.

[Hal Sheets]

Sure. The colors on the VH are more subdued than the Trojan. Hope you can see that in the pictures.

So are the colors on the VH 12, cyanide or not? They don't seem to have the striping, so often seen with cyanide colors. But not quite the same as bone case colors either.

[Jon Sheets]

You got me? Perhaps someone else can tell, although the pics aren't the greatest.

[Bruce Day]

The VH 12 has cyanide process color case hardening.

Below is 1910 original bone charcoal. There is a subtle difference that matters to some.