VH with 24" barrels - cut?

[Dan Lowry]

I am new to Parker shotguns. I recently happened upon an "attic find" two barrel set 20/28 VH on 0 frame with splinter forend with straight stock, #156670. The barrels measure 24" (20) and 23" (28). Did parker every make a gun with such short barrels, or are they most likely cut? The barrels are stamped 3lb. 2 oz. and 2 lb. 12 oz. Can I weigh the barrels and determine if they have been cut based on the stamped weight?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[John Dallas]

It's possible, but unlikely. Several things will help to answer your question. There may be surviving records for your gun which would answer your question. Secondly, can you provide a close-up photo of the top of the muzzle showing the matting at the end of the rib? If the barrels are cut, it is likely that the matting will go all the way to the end of the rib. If factory original, there is normally a small (1/8") blank space at the end of the rib.

[Rick Losey]

Unlikely

There are some 24 inch original barrels but few

23 would be very unlikely

Pictures of the muzzle would help - to see if the keels are missing

You could also measure for chokes

[Patrick Butler]

#156,670 is not listed in the Parker ID book, but I would join the Association and request a letter. Do both barrels and the for end(s) have the same number?

There is a Parker ad offering 24" in 28 gauge, but I would agree with the other member's comments that the 23" are cut. Nevertheless, it sounds like a very interesting set.

Pictures, please.

[Dan Lowry]

Yes all parts have the serial number. The barrels are stamped "1" and "2" as are the forends. I don't have a picture of the muzzle yet.

[Dave Noreen]

The tables in The Parker Story show 30 VH-/VHE-Grade 20-gauges made with 24-inch barrels, and 38 28-gauges made with 24-inch barrels. There were two 12-gauges and one 20-gauge made with 23-inch barrels. There are a couple of 28-gauges listed with 20-inch barrels. All this to say it is possible.

A check on the "Research Letters" serial number check on our home page shows there are surviving records for 156670. A Research Letter could answer a lot of questions on a potentially very valuable gun.

Wow!!! Why isn't something like that in my attic? My very first thought is that looks like late Remington era wood. A Parker Bros. VH-Grade in the 156xxx range would normally have wood like this --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Parker/193020-gaVH-Gradestockleft.jpg

[Dan Lowry]

I don't have any experience with Parkers, but it did occur to me that the wood looked too nice for a lower grade gun. I wonder if it was restocked at some point?

[Bruce Day]

Two original DHE 20 gauges, both un chopped. One is a 32" , the other 24".

[Dan Lowry]

BD, I would have assumed the barrels in the top photo were cut due to the engraving on the rib...

[Dave Noreen]

The depth of the blank area at the muzzle end of the rib seems to vary a lot, and every now an then a gun shows up with squiggly lines all the way to the end and letters at that length?!? Makes me wonder if they were cut at the factory to fill an order?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Parker/UncutMuzzle.jpg

[Dean Romig]

BD, I would have assumed the barrels in the top photo were cut due to the engraving on the rib...



In response to Mr Lowry's assumption - if you double click on the picture you can easily see that the matting ends just before the end of the rib, and it is especially evident on the left side of the rib (that's on the right side of the illustrated rib).

And, in regard to anyone making the proclamation that 'all' original length Parker barrels had the blank space at the end of the rib with a scribed termination line across the rib (the vast majority did) - I have a Parker with 24" barrels (this length is supported in a research letter) where there is no scribed line and the matting runs right off the end of the rib.... see below -




.

[charlie cleveland]

i sure hope both set of barrels are factory for you...what a find...charlie

[Dan Lowry]

Should the choke be marked on the barrels somewhere?

[Dean Romig]

No, not on a Meriden made Parker. You'll need a dial-indicator type of bore gage.





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[greg conomos]

Save for the cut barrels....that gun would be / is out of this world.

[Russ Jackson]

As most of us on this Forum say ,Never say Never when it comes to Parker Guns ! Once upon a time ,I owned Serial # 106312 O Frame . DH Grade 28 Gauge with original 25" Barrels , have regretted using that particular gun for a trade !

[Larry Frey]

The barrels are stamped 3lb. 2 oz. and 2 lb. 12 oz. Can I weigh the barrels and determine if they have been cut based on the stamped weight?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Dan,
From your post I gather the 24" 20 gage barrels are the ones stamped 3# 2oz. That seems right to me as I checked a set of 24" 20 gage uncut Acme barrels I have and the stamped (unstuck) weight is also 3# 2oz matching what you have stated. I can’t comment on the other barrels without seeing them and measuring the chokes. I will say however that from past research by PGCA members published in Parker Pages the average weight lost during striking is around 6-8oz but can vary some due to gage, length, and the desired overall weight and balance the gun maker was trying to achieve.

[Dan Lowry]

If 6 - 8 oz. is lost due to striking, does that mean barrels stamped 3lb 2oz would actually weight 2lb 10-12oz?

[Dean Romig]

Yes, quite possibly... but not necessarily.


How's that for being ambiguous....?


.

[Larry Frey]

If 6 - 8 oz. is lost due to striking, does that mean barrels stamped 3lb 2oz would actually weight 2lb 10-12oz?

Dan,
I just checked my 24" barrels and the actual weight is now 2# 13oz with a loss due to striking of 5oz. I would expect barrels 6" longer would likly loose a little more.

[Erick Dorr]

Dan, it is entirely possible that the barrels are uncut. I own a DH 12 with 25" barrels and a DHE 16 with 24" barrels. Both guns letter at those lengths. Last month I bought an estate attic find leg of mutton case that included 12 ga VH 24" barrels and forend which had been part of a 2 barrel set. I don't know if these barrels letter as 24"or not but they look correct. All of these guns were "local" and sold at auction. Plus J Julia Auction sold a consecutive pair of GHE's this fall both with 24" barrels.
The point is short barrels and odd length barrels exist as they came from the factory and in my experience turn up more often than might be expected.
Still many many guns have shortened barrels for any number of reasons.
I encourage you to join the PGCA and order a letter for this gun. It certainly warrants a letter in this configuration.
Best regards,
Erick

[John Havard]

Dan, your profile doesn't say where you live. But there are PGCA members all over the USA. If you're close to one they might be able to help you evaluate your new gun.

[Dan Lowry]

It's not my gun, yet. I am trying to buy it. I was not in the market for a Parker gun, until this gun found me. I have a small collection of Winchester 101's and 23's which I enjoy hunting and shooting clays with, so little to no knowledge of Parker guns. I started to do some research which led me to this forum. Thanks to all for the helpful posts.

[Richard Flanders]

I have two cut Parkers. A 24" PHE 16 that has no choke left but still has the keels in place that could be factory work. Only evidence to the contrary is that the front bead is not the typical hourglass type Parker bead. The other gun is a 26" GHE 12 1-frame that is clearly cut but letters from the factory at 26". I'm thinking they were cut to fill an order for a 26" GHE 12ga damascus gun.

[Jean Swanson]

The PGCA has records on that gun----156670

[Mike Franzen]

Looking at wrist area cheek piece there appears a tear drop. Also an oval shield on bottom. This appears to be s restocked gun but you can correct me if I'm wrong. Dan if you're trying to buy this gun a letter would be a good investment. If the gun came from the factory the way it sits it would have additional value. No matter what, that's a great Parker and if you can get it do so. Let us know.

[Brian Dudley]

No oval. its a shield. And no drop points. What you see is light reflecting off the end of the cheek panel. The only thing that i see off about the stock, suggesting a restock, is that the cheek panels are far more defined with sharp edges than they should be.

[Mike Franzen]

Thanks for the clarification. That's what happens when I try posting in the wee hours of the morning.

[Phil Yearout]

Reminds me of Gene Hill's The Woodcock Gun. "...He must have been an independent Yankee cuss. I'll bet it was the only 24-inch side-by-side in all New England. There must have been some laughs and jokes around the cider mill when he first showed it off!"

[Erick Dorr]

Phil, I will have to get a copy of that book but I assure you that the author had some company. My 25" DH was originally shipped to VT and ended up in Union ME with a family member. 24" DHE came from Camden. 24" VH barrels only, part of a 2 barrel set came off Vinalhaven but probably originated with last owners grandfather from Boston. New England apparently had its share of gunners that saw merit in short barrels.

Wednesday at a FL flea market I saw a Trojan 2 barrel set with barrels and forends both numbered 1 & 2. Serialization book lists it as a 28" without options but the 24" barrels and forend were both numbered to the rest of the gun. I couldn't be sure that the short barrels are original but the barrels touched with the rib matting running to the end of the barrels. At the same flea market got a rush from a VH 3 fr with 32" barrels. I thought I had discovered a 10 ga VH but it turned out to be a 12 ga 3 fr. Gun was rough so I didn't follow up on it.
Erick

On Wednesday I saw a

[Phil Yearout]

Erick, I need to follow you around to some flea markets! Seems like I get mostly arts & crafts and beanie babies around here!

The story is in Gene's book A Hunter's Fireside Book. I think you'll enjoy it.