New gun or recut engraving on current gun

[Bill Holcombe]

This is somewhat of a mental exercise, but was curious of people's opinions. Especially those who have had engraving recut before.

I have a 3 dog DH that I absolutely love. The wood is great, the checkering is great, the damascus barrels and the SSBP are great.

Unfortunately the engraving is faint. Especially on the floor plate.

My question is I can save my money and get a gun I absolutely love to shoot to have better engraving, or I can save my money even longer and add a nicer DH to the collection....

Any suggestions from past experience?

[Jim DiSpagno]

3 dog DH is a fairly rare gun especially as you describe it. Price chasing the engraving from a reputable engraver such as J.J. Roberts or G. Gourmet and compare to another purchase. It's your dime.

[Angel Cruz]

You say you love the gun. What else is there to think? Have it recut and love it even more.

[Joe Wood]

Leave it as it is if it hasn't been messed up by someone else. If original, that's part of its history.

[Dean Romig]

Nothing against the gentlemen already mentioned for re-engraving but I have seen some phenomenal recut engraving come out of Doug Turnbull's shop that I couldn't tell from original Parker Bros. engraving.




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[Dave Suponski]

Dean, I believe that would be Noelle's work. In talking with her she had been doing some work for Doug.

[Dean Romig]

Nope Dave, not Noelle's... this is from several years ago.





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[Bill Holcombe]

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14210

Is the gun. As I said I love everything about it, just wish the engraving was stronger.

[Dean Romig]

Bill, to begin with, your DH was made in a period when the engraving was cut very finely but not deep at all. That, coupled with a lot of use can really affect the appearance of the engraving. I have a DH 2-Frame with near perfect engraving but, again, from that same period. It's even hard to see it well unless held in just the right light. The dog on the floor plate is very unusual - especially in a gun as late as yours is. That was a more popular engraving theme 5 - 10 years earlier than yours.

If you choose to have the engraving re-cut, you really need to investigate the folks who say they can do it properly.... you need to see examples of their work. Again, I would contact Turnbull Restorations.





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[Chris Travinski]

Bill,
I vote go for it. You're not into the gun for a ton of money, it would look great with the engraving cleaned up an re-case hardened! Send it to Brian Dudley, he'll make some new floor plate screws, polish it up and send it to Gournet for you.

[greg conomos]

If I had to gripe about Parkers, it would be that on too many guns the engraving is too faint. It doesn't help that my eyesight is getting more and more faint either but that's not Parker's fault. In any case, I wish the engraving were 50% deeper on these 'faint' guns.

[Kevin McCormack]

To my knowledge, there is no definable period during which the execution of Parker engraving can be categorized as "light" vs. "deep". The style and the expression of the engraver more likely determined the execution of the final product; many of the early Parker engravers (c. early 1870s thru about 1905) were of English or German descent.

The British of course preferred extremely fine scrollwork with more caricature-like dogs, birds and animals, while the Germanic engravers preferred more bold and dramatic tableaus for their work.

The result is a curious but delightful mix of styles and expression - much of the "lightly cut" style similar to the British Boss, W.C. Scott and early Westley Richards type, while at the same time examples were done using the very deep cutaway and shading techniques seen on the c. 1900 A and AA Pigeon guns, and later the A-1 Specials of the post-1905-07 era.

[allen newell]

Dan Cullity is a gunsmith/engraver of renown and resides in West Barnstable, Mass. He does excellent work and his engraving is exquisite.

[Dean Romig]

Agreed about Dan, I thought he had retired from gun smithing...

I have had the distinct privilege and pleasure to examine a AAHE pigeon gun that had been badly rusted which Dan had completely and accurately been re-engraved. Absolutely amazing work.




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[allen newell]

no Dean, he and his son Ryan are still very busy. He's still building guns from scratch and doing his engraving. Good guy, pricey but his work is outstanding.

[Brian Dudley]

You have things to consider here, apart from the possibility of fixing something that isnt really broke... You want to make sure that you are picking the right hand in doing recuts of Parker engraving. I have seen some horrible looking recuts on guns where someone clearly just ran around the main lines and did nothing to take up all the fine detail work.

Also, they must use the proper tools for the right look. Hammer and chisel hand cut work, just like originally done. Not that modern power tools in the right hands could have the right look. But it helps if the same process is used.

And there is the issue of annealing the plate for cutting and the. Re-hardening. Which in turn will result in the new case having to be aged back for aesthetic purposes. Unless carbide tools are used to cut through the old case.

Anyway... I would advise that it is likely more trouble than it is worth.


Regarding Turnbull's engraving pickup work, i had them do a trigger plate for me on a VH 12g that i was converted from single to double triggers. I had to fit up another trigger plate and all new screws. Some of the original walked border on the plate was wiped out. Their IN HOUSE engraver touched it up and made it look like it was completely original. Difficult to do on walked borders. The plate was then re-colored and i aged the colors back to blend in nicely with the 75% condition original frame.

[Dean Romig]

All good points Brian - I agree.





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[Craig Larter]

My feeling is unless you are perfectly satisfied with a gun you are better off selling it and purchasing what floats your boat. If you spend all that money on the engraving/re-coloring the gun will you then be perfectly satisfied???? Be honest with yourself. I know of plenty of collectors who have spent money improving a gun and where disappointed with the results and ended up selling the gun for a dollar loss.

[allen newell]

Spot on Craig. Been there, done that..

[Craig Larter]

As most who collect vintage Parkers know it takes a while to firmly establish your preferences. The less compromises the better. Gun collecting is emotional for most of us so the better you understand your preferences the fewer mistakes you will make. That being said we have all made poor choices but that's just the cost of a great hobby in my opinion. Good luck with your decision with respect to recuting the engraving. Craig

[Bill Murphy]

I have had guns' engraving freshened up by Doug Turnbull, Theirry Duguet and will probably have other guns freshened up by others. There is no problem with having such work done. I disagree with Craig and think that sticking with a project can be very satisfying compared to bailing out. There are many engravers who can do "some work" without running you into the poorhouse. Theirry is an exceptional choice for restoration work.

[Dean Romig]

Bill - Theirry Duguet - is that the name of the very talented engraver at DTR?





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[Jerry Harlow]

This was a very nice NH I purchased from one of our members. Sometime in the past the previous owner (before our member to be clear) had taken a sharp object and "engraved" his S.S. number into the floor plate, ruining it.

I took it to Thierry Duguet and he removed all of the original engraving and put it back perfectly. Sorry for the quality of the cell phone picture. The frame was already in the white, and so it remains with the beautiful floor plate. I've also had him re-do the dogs on a DH where they had been polished down.

http://engraver.net/

[charlie cleveland]

jerry i like this gun the lower grades engraving really stands out...charlie