Vintage shell pattern test

[Pete Lester]

From Scott Kittredge:

"This pattern was shot with an old REM-UMC SHURSHOT paper 12 ga 3 drms 1oz #4, 132 pellets to an oz. This shell is about 40 to 50 years old. I shot it out of a 12 ga CHE acme barrels choked .022 at 40 yds rest shot. 115 out of 132 = 87%. So do the new shells shoot tighter or are the old ones just as good?"

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj57/nhshotgunner/DSCF0003.jpg

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj57/nhshotgunner/DSCF0002.jpg

[Dave Suponski]

Pete,looks like a pretty good pattern. Kinda shoots a hole in the old adage about those paper shells...:rolleyes:

[Drew Hause]

Sept. 7 1895 Sporting Life http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1895/VOL_25_NO_24/SL2524016.pdf

Ed Taylor, of Cincinnati, for curiosity's sake, gave his light 12-gauge Yankee Smith gun a pattern trial at various distances the past week, his target being a 30-inch circle, his load 3 1/4 drams Troisdorf smokeless powder and 1 1/8 ounce No. 7 1/2 shot.
Here are the patterns made with the left barrel:
30 yards 395 pellets
(There are 388 U.S. 7 1/2 pellets in 1 1/8 oz., 400 English 7 1/2 so probably English size)
40 yards 333/ 400 = 83%
40 yards 325 = 82%
50 yards 230 = 57.5%
50 yards 230 = 57.5%

One would expect Scott's 4s to pattern tighter than 7 1/2s

[Richard Flanders]

I much prefer the old paper shells when hunting with my Parkers, as much for nostalgia as anything else. They kill just fine and smell right. It's a no brainer for me. I buy all the vintage papers I can find if the price is reasonable.

[Bill Murphy]

There is nothing new under the sun. In 1961, I bought a W&C Scott 16 gauge with 26" barrels actually marked full and full. I did not own a choke micrometer when I was 15 years old. The cheapest shells were 2 9/16", one ounce, paper low brass roll crimp loads with a cardboard top wad. Remington and Winchester loaded them and the retail price was $2.50 a box. I assume Federal loaded them too. From that gun, any of these loads in #6 shot patterned 90% at 40 yards in a 30" circle. The percentage never varied all the times I patterned that load.

[Dean Romig]

Pete, did they go off on the first trigger pull or did you have to re-cock the gun a few times?

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I've shot quite a bit of game, even ducks and geese, with paper shells and always found them to be plenty deadly. I've had some squibs too, but that's usually on really old stuff from the 20's or 30's. Don't remember ever having much trouble with anything made after the war.

[Bruce Day]

Bill Murphy, this is an open question. You know we hear that the plastic full coverage shot cups are much more effective that the old cardboard wads in holding the shot string together and that these shot cups add a full increment of choke. Is this an old wive's tale? That old paper shell and cardboard wad shot a nice pattern.

[Bill Murphy]

I doubt that a plastic shot cup would have caused my old 16 gauge Scott to shoot more than a 90% pattern. I guess shot deformation is not that big a deal at reasonable ranges. We can easily throw patterns with plastic wad shells and compare them to the patterns shot with the same shells and the wad petals cut off. I don't think we're going to see much difference.

[Larry Frey]

I've been watching Tom's strutting around here for almost a month and having decided to try my luck this year with a tightly choked VH 20 I went thru some old 20 gage shells I had and this is what I found. Rather than using modern 7 1/2's or 6's I think the vintage 5's having less pellets would pattern better through the .025 chokes.

[Richard Flanders]

Go for it Larry! Use the old stuff and make sure to inhale the sweet intoxicating odor of the shell after the shot and post pics afterwards. Those 4 and 5 shells should do the trick at a reasonable range. I have stacks of old 20ga Super X and Remington paper 20's on the shelves and love to shoot them. This wily old Montana rooster fell to an old Remington 20ga shell and was a shot that Trigg and I will never forget. Trigg said it was like watching a movie unfold as he watched from a distance as his dog Dodger and I slowly tracked this bird and finally got it to fly from cover.

As an aside, has anyone seen the new Remington 3" 20ga shells of 1.5oz tungsten that is heavier than lead and patterns incredibly tight. The wad is a solid tube that pulls away from the rear of the shot column in flight using a parachute like concept. Very interesting. Can be seen in the latest American Hunter.

[scott kittredge]

From Scott Kittredge:

"This pattern was shot with an old REM-UMC SHURSHOT paper 12 ga 3 drms 1oz #4, 132 pellets to an oz. This shell is about 40 to 50 years old. I shot it out of a 12 ga CHE acme barrels choked .022 at 40 yds rest shot. 115 out of 132 = 87%. So do the new shells shoot tighter or are the old ones just as good?"

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj57/nhshotgunner/DSCF0003.jpg

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj57/nhshotgunner/DSCF0002.jpg
I bought this back to the top. I shot this pattern 11 years ago with an old factory shell. I did another test soon after to see if it would do the same and it did.
Scott

[Richard Flanders]

Who needs a pattern any tighter than that out of a .022" choke???? A pigeon could barely survive that pattern.

[Stan Hillis]

Who needs a pattern any tighter than that out of a .022" choke???? A pigeon could barely survive that pattern.

A turkey hunter, maybe?

[Dave Noreen]

Back in 1963 when I got my 12-gauge, 3-inch, Super-Fox, it came with three boxes of late 1930s Remington ARROW EXPRESS Magnum Loads. One each #4, #5 and #6. None of the boxes were quite full, a few shells out of each. When I was cleaning out my Father's house in 2003 after I retired I found the pattern sheets I'd shot back then were still there in the basement, rolled up and tucked up in the main floor joists. They showed 79% with the #4s and 85% with the #5s. Also the #6 box with 14 shells was there in the basement too.

99992

Guess I shot the #4 and #5 shells at Columbia Basin Mallards back in the 60s.

I didn't realize at 17 that my 1928 vintage gun was actually made for 1 3/8 ounce loads. I even tried some of the 1 7/8 ounce loads in it, but they made very patchy patterns so I stuck with 1 5/8 ounce loads until bismuth came along.

[charlie cleveland]

I too have some of those old 1 3/8 ounce loads and the 1 5/8 ounce loads these loads were top performers in their day...I ve shot hundreds of the old 1 5/8 ounce loads but the 1 3/8 ounce loads were before my time...now the 1 7/8 and the 2 ounce loads were my favorite loads for turkey for several years till the 3 1/2 inch shell in 12 ga came along...I ve used this shell up to this past year when the new tss no9s in the 3 1/2 inch shell came along with 2 1/2 ounce of shot..this is the best turkey shell ever fired....I still like the old paper and plastic shells.....charlie