SHOOTING 2 3/4 SHELLS IN A VH

[Troy Miller]

I have a parker vh manufactured in 1900 chambered for 2 9/6 can i shoot low brass 2 3/4 from caballes in it or do i need to order the 2 1/2 from rst?

Thanks
Troy

[Harry Collins]

Shoot anything you want in it. I would shy away from steel shot loads. Sherman Bell found that 2 3/4" shells fired in a 2 1/2" chamber would only increase pressure by about 300 psi. this is a negligible figure.

[Brian Dudley]

A search for this subject on the forum will result in you finding many other threads where this subject is discussed.

[Dean Romig]

Troy, I have a 2-frame Parker DH with 2 9/16" chambers that I have shot a lot of 2 3/4" 'off the shelf' ammo in but my shoulder (and perhaps the gun too) prefer RST or low-pressure ammo. Your VH is a 1-frame and the wall thickness at the cones should be measured before choosing to shoot 'off the shelf' 2 3/4" ammo in it.





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[Mark Garrett]

I always like the Idea of shooting the right ammo for the gun.

[William Davis]

B&P's 7/8 oz Competition one is a viable option for low recoil. At the SxS shoots around here it's probably the most often seen shell.

Not suggesting anything to anybody but I am not real concerned about pressure in my Fluid Steel 12 G Parker's that have had the barrels inspected as long as it's light shot load and modest velocity, Recoil and effect on stock wood I do pay attention to.

Opps looking back at your other post it's a 16 G. Almost no factory shell options for light 16's besides RST's which are very good shells. For some reason factory 16's are loaded nearly as heavy as factory 12's when they are much better off with 3/4 oz 1160 FPS loads.

Go to 16G.com forums for the scoop on 16 G loads. I load all mine using their data.

William

[Bill Murphy]

16 gauge shells that are described as 2 1/2 dram equivalent, 1 ounce loads are what you want for normal light weight prewar American double guns. Other than these, no other mass market shells are light enough for our guns. If you can't find these, you will have to go to boutique shells such as RST.

[Eric Grims]

I load AA winchesters in 7/8 oz and occasionally in 1 oz. for my 12 gauge parkers. They have all measured 2 5/8 chambers with a rough gage. I have also measured and measured again AA spent hulls and to me they are consistently closer to 2 5/8 than 2 3/4. At 6000 to 7200 (1oz) PSI I experience no problems and 7/8 is nicer on recoil.

[William Davis]

I bought a flat of the 1 oz Herters 16s from Cabellas, way too much recoil for my Trojan on clay targets. Shot them up in my Remington 31 reloaded for the Parker.

William

[John Campbell]

I load AA winchesters in 7/8 oz ... At 6000 to 7200 (1oz) PSI I experience no problems and 7/8 is nicer on recoil.

If you like 7/8 oz. you will love 3/4 oz loads. I load and shoot them for everything except pheasant. For those, 1 0z is the ticket. Loaded to no more than 1150 fps.

My guns like the light stuff too. Along with my shoulder...

[Troy Miller]

16 gauge shells that are described as 2 1/2 dram equivalent, 1 ounce loads are what you want for normal light weight prewar American double guns. Other than these, no other mass market shells are light enough for our guns. If you can't find these, you will have to go to boutique shells such as RST.

I did find a couple of federal game loads at 2 3/4 in 2 1/2 dram 1oz lead

[Troy Miller]

Quail and chucker open Saturday and dove already open. So will try out for first Time along with my 8 month old brittanys first time actually hunting and not training

[Fred Lowe]

Go get them Troy!
The newspaper had an article this morning, Utah Div. of Wildlife says that we have the highest bird numbers in 17 years.
I would guess that the Boise area is as good if not better.

[Allen Peterson]

I think the Parker VH was proofed for around 9300 -9600 psi loads. The so called low brass
Ammo today is usually 10000-13000 psi. RST or Polywad both make very good quality ammunition that is suited for the vintage SXS.and the are not that expensive unless you order the ITX.

[Troy Miller]

Thanks all for the help and advise.

[Bruce Day]

[QUOTE=I think the Parker VH was proofed for around 9300 -9600 psi loads. The so called low brass
Ammo today is usually 10000-13000 psi. RST or Polywad both make very good quality ammunition that is suited for the vintage SXS.and the are not that expensive unless you order the ITX.[/QUOTE]


As with most matters Parker, The Parker Story provides the answer and is an invaluable resource for those wanting to know about their Parkers.

TPS, p. 515. Table A is the table of pressures that Parker used. You can see that for a 16ga with 2 9/16 " chambers, the Service Working Limit is 10,100 with a maximum individual load of 11,700psi. These are service load pressures, the proof load is far higher, at 14,200psi mean with a max of 15,600. This does not mean the barrel will rupture if shot greater than 14,200, only that it withstood that level as a test. Actual tests to rupture were far higher, around 29,000 for a 12ga , a 16ga would be theoretically higher.

If in fact, a 16ga was proofed at 9300psi, the service load would be approximately one third lower, or 6100psi. That would be a piffling load indeed for any gun, and just not so for a Parker.

We are also fortunate in that Parker told us what to shoot. Parker identified in its patterning tags and the tables in the its publication the Small Bore Shot Gun, reproduced here previously, that a 16 ga should use 2 1/2 drams with either 7/8 oz or 1 oz. That powder load moves 1oz of shoot at about 1150fps. That is approximately the same as a Federal (or Herters) load available today and slightly less than a Winchester or Remington load. These present factory loads are below Parker service pressure loads at around 8500 to 10,000psi.

Some Parker owners shoot the 1 1/8oz loads backed by 2 3/4drams. These are slightly greater than Parker service loads, but below Parker proof loads, and are consistent with SAAMI standards at around 10,500psi. Recoil can be harsh and a person might consider the typically thin stock wrist of many Parker guns.

In short, RST shells are great, and are the only 7/8 shot loads I know in 16ga. But Federals, Winchesters, Herters, Remington and others 1 oz loads are also within the Parker service loads.

Its always a good idea to match the load to the game for a humane kill. For dove, quail and small birds, 7/8 oz is always sufficient. For larger, tougher birds such as pheasant, 1oz is the smallest recommended load unless a person restricts to close birds. These recommendations are from Parker and from ammunition manufacturers. For clays, even a smaller load is sufficient to break the target.

I shoot 16s in Parker grades A, C, D, G and P ( fluid and Damascus) and a Lefever EE( Kruppstahl) , hammerless and hammer, and regularly use RST, Federal, etc. 1 oz loads on game, or handload for clays at 7/8 oz. I'd guess about 80,000 rounds of mostly Remington and Winchester 1 oz and greater factory loads have been put through my old family PHE 16, with no visible stock cracks, bulges, etc.

[John Truitt]

Does not matter much what guage/ frame size/ etc.
Wall thickness should be determined first!!!!!!
If she does not have the thickness don't risk it.

If she has the thickness then you can feel safe and shoot the heck out of your gun.
I agree most 16 ga ammo is way to much of a snot kicker for me. The black remingtons always seem to be the 3 dram version. And I find event eh 2 1/2 dram to be a little too much thump for me on the sporting course.
I switched two years ago to RST and have not looked back since.
I like both the 1 oz and 7/8 oz 16 gauge 2 1/2 " shells. They break targets very hard at all distances. I cannot say enough good things about RST's products.

Measure the wall thickness and if safe have some fun.

[Bruce Day]

The black Remingtons, at 1oz and 1200fps, are going to be about 2 3/4 dram equivalent and push the load about 40 fps faster than the Federals. For game shooting, the usually greater chamber pressure and resultant greater recoil is likely not noticeable, but 100 rounds sporting clays, it is.

If you have a honed out bore to unsafe wall thickness, I wouldn't even shoot the gun, and I would not lessen the load chamber pressure thinking that I would find a load safe to shoot in such a gun. Nor would I own such a gun unless I was looking for a replacement barrel. Some of the Parker 20's and light 16s were factory made with down to about .021 to .024 wall thickness. I have not heard of any problems with these with Parker recommended loads.

[Harry Collins]

I took Uncle Bill's VH 16 gauge with Miller single trigger to Elk Creek yesterday and shot RST 2 1/2" Lite 7/8oz at 1,125 fps. Shot an 89 and would have probably gotten into the 90's, but I kept trying to pull a nonexistent second trigger as well as pushing the safety to the wrong barrel. I intend to telephone Morris Baker today tell him what he already knows about his shotgun shells. They are the best.

[William Davis]

I shot a half round of Sporting Clays with my Trojan 16 yesterday. 3/4 oz 14 grs of Green Dot about 1150 Fps. Easy shooting very adequate for clay targets. Few shells short of 50 shot one station 7/8 oz 15.7 Green Dot, shells loaded for hunting. Not as nice for long sessions like on the target range.

One thing to consider Hunting is pattern density. Tight choked gun puts a lot of pellets on target even with 7/8 oz Open choked gun needs more shot to achieve the same density good place for 1 oz. And of course what game and how far are the likely shots.


William

[Troy Miller]

Ok well got the ole parker out. my pup didn't kick up any bird but shot a few rounds of the 2 3/4 target-game loads through it with no problems. now if i can just get a shot on some birds to see if i can hit anything with it. lol