Mystery gun?

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

I need help to identify this double. It has a ser. no. of 236 and that is it. Thanks Thomas

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

I guess photo's would help. It a bitch when you get old. Thomas

[Rick Losey]

are there barrels?

what are the proofs on the water table

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

Rick: Not a one but the ser. no. and yes I have the barrels with both top and bottom ribs coming off. Thomas

[Brian Dudley]

The action looks like a greener on many ways. Maybe another maker using their design.

[Bill Murphy]

Appears to be a nice Greener. Strange it has no marks. I would email Graham Greener with the pictures and the serial number.

[wayne goerres]

Looks like a greener to me and it was a nice one.

[Jerry Parise]

It certainly looks like a Greener to me as well. I know of no other maker that used the side safety of this configuration other than Greener.

[Rick Losey]

there were German guns made by a couple makers with that safety- but the engraving does not look Germanic,

it seems odd a British made gun would not have proof marks on the water table

[John Campbell]

Thomas:
It's a Greener. If sold in the US it required no British proof. Where is the No. 236? On the barrels? Is it enclosed in a diamond? It could be a use number...

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

John: It is on the barrel/receiver/forend metal with no diamond. It gets better with these other fhoto's. Thomas

[Paul Plager]

What ever it is, it's pretty.

[Brian Hornacek]

oops

[John Campbell]

Thomas:
I'd say the 236 is an assembly number to keep the bits together in process at the factory. The number on the stock is a property number. Company? Government? The painted characters are Asian. I'm no expert on that. Chinese? The history of this gun could be VERY interesting.

[Rick Losey]

Thomas:
It's a Greener. If sold in the US it required no British proof. Where is the No. 236? On the barrels? Is it enclosed in a diamond? It could be a use number...

educate me please- doesn't a gun manufactured in the UK require at minimum a provisional proof prior to assembly??

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

I was thinking they were Japanese.I will have to get checked out for its meaning. Thomas

[John Campbell]

educate me please- doesn't a gun manufactured in the UK require at minimum a provisional proof prior to assembly??

One would think so, but apparently not. The key is where the gun was to be sold. If that location was outside of the UK or the Empire, proofs were not required. Many British-made guns sold in the US during the 19th century have no proofs.

This was probably a cost decision. Proof cost money. And if a maker wasn't required to submit for proof, save a few quid, and sell the finished gun where there was no proof anyway - like the USA - then why not?

If the gun was going anywhere in the Commonwealth, proof was required.

[Steve Cambria]

Agree on the potential for an interesting history lesson. Perhaps this gun made its way to the outskirts of the British Empire, one that was subsequently conquered by the Japanese?

John: What was that UK firm/agency (Ltd.??) that sold sporting arms to British military personnel stationed throughout the world?? I can see the letters: CSL??? Arrrrgh, I blew a fuse. :banghead:

[Rick Losey]

The Army & Navy Co-operative Society Ltd

Or CSL

[Steve Cambria]

43640

Thanks, Rick....knew I was somewhere near the ball park!

[Brian Dudley]

I know a local gentleman who owns a Greener 8 bore that was made on special order for export to the USA. Baltimore Maryland was the location of the original owner. It is an Pincepts action. It does have a full set of English proofs on it.

[George Stanton]

The engraving doesn't look right and no proofs . I think a well done copy of a Greener.

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

George: You could be correct but do you know of others that are copy's of W.W.Greeners. Thomas

[John Campbell]

Thomas:
Can we please see the action flats, barrel flats, and forend iron?

It may help.

I do not think this is a "copy." Who would copy a low grade Greener? And for God's sake why?

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

John: I'll take some tomorrow. How low of grade do think it is. Thomas

[Dave Noreen]

A Japanese knock-off of a Greener. A buddy who spent some time in Japan working for the Pacific Stars & Stripes, has a couple of Japanese made knock-offs of more typical Birmingham boxlocks.

[George Stanton]

I have seen a Belgian copy of a Greener. Japanese copies of Westley Richards A&D actions are well known.

The engraving not only does not look like Greener's, it has an Asian look.

No way a gun is built in England without proof. Export or not.

I think Researcher is right. Not because he agrees with me. Because he is always right.

[George Stanton]

Thomas,

When I say it is a copy I am not implying that it is of low quality. The Japanese have made many very nice guns. Judge it in hand for yourself.

George

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

I'm having a lot of fun with this so keep the comments coming. I have no clue what it is but I'm leaning in the direction of Japanese copy. I need to have the barrels repaired so may not be worth the effort. Thomas

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

I don't know if this will help but here goes. Thomas

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

The only other number besides 236 is a small 4 on barrel flats. Thomas

[wayne goerres]

I may have been incorrect. I dug my Greener out of the safe and compared the two. there are differences. The hinge pin is different. The engraving looks more Belgium than English. But it dose appear to be a very close copy.

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

I'm not sure I want to spend400 to 500 to get the top and bottom ribs redone and have a 500.00 dollar gun. Thomas

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

I decided to fix the barrels and have a complete gun. It is at the shop now so will wait to see how it turns out. Thomas

[George Stanton]

Very good. Sometimes it's about more than the resale value.

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

I found a relative I believe this week end at the local gun show. It is a 12 ga. with 34 inch barrels so thought you might want a look. Thomas

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

couple more with ser. no. 1001 Thomas

[wayne goerres]

Thomas Charlie is already trying to figure out what type of slugs he can shoot in your gun. He is dueling over the sights. That is a really cool gun.

[Bill Murphy]

What is the bore size of the single barrel?

[Mills Morrison]

That is a cool gun. That may be the most tempting single barrel trap gun I have seen.

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

I took it over and had a couple screws made for it today from a friend of mine and he measured the inside bore at the breech and said it was .814 and it looks like the barrel has been cut so maybe it was 36 inches long at one time.I think that it may of had a bead at the end of the barrels that is missing. It sure is a cool old gun. Thomas

[Patrick Butler]

Thomas:

I wonder why the stock was stamped and marked? Perhaps by a military?

Anyway, there are websites that attempt to translate characters that you draw and the three large yellow ones got some hits as Chinese numerals. I did not try the others as I have some difficulty reading the form.

Patrick

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

I had a repair done on the W.W.Greener copy and it is ready to shoot. I just had the ribs relayed and the forend fixed so the little 6.4 lb. should be good for quail and doves. It has some marks on the breech but didn't want to get to much tied up in a shooter Thomas

[Mike Franzen]

Thomas, the third character painted on the stock is the Chinese symbol for POWER. Take that photo to any Chinese restaurant and ask them what it means. Could clear up some mysteries.

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

Mike: Thanks, not only can I find its meaning but enjoy a great meal. I win all the way around. Thomas

[Mike Franzen]

Order up some mapo tofu and give them a look. Let me what you find out. Heck I can take it to Chinese restaurant myself and get the double win.

[greg conomos]

All the Chinese restaurants around here.....they could tell you what it means only if it was in Spanish. Same goes for the Greek, Italian, Cajun, German, French, and BBQ places.

[John Campbell]

Sadly today, it's like asking someone at Olive Garden to translate the libretto of La bohème.

[wayne goerres]

Might have better luck at Micky D's.