New Parker, no letter

[John Powers]

I have a new Parker, 10 ga, 32" barrels, serial number 12683. Since there is no information available, is it a dollar grade? It appears t be a grade 3, but pretty nice for a three. So, opinions would be greatly appreciated. The barrels are getting some loving. Mirror bores, but Damascus pattern needs some help. Thanks

[Dean Romig]

It's a Grade 3 for certain and a really nice one too! It is nearly a twin to my 14056 but yours is in much nicer condition.

Mine is listed as a L3 and I would like to know are the barrels on yours L or D (Laminated Steel or Damascus Steel)?

Yours was made in 1878 and mine was made in 1879 but it is clear to me that the same engraver worked on both of our guns.

Unfortunately the hammers were cannibalized from mine before I got the gun.

Congratulations on your very fine Grade 3 lifter!

[John Powers]

They are Fine Damascus. Thanks Dean

[Dean Romig]

John, is that what is engraved on the top rib, Fine Damascus?

[Alfred Greeson]

Trying to learn from you guys. This is a beautiful gun, thanks for the pictures. The Damascus pattern appears to be different, barrel to barrel. Are they possibly different Damascus patterns, just look that way with uneven wear or is it possible they are different as if they were done so as a salesman's sample that I have read somewhere?

[Dean Romig]

Alfred, it is my belief - though not proven - that the Laminated Steel barrels on my gun, 14056, were actually made by Parker Bros. Charles A. King, superintendant of the Parker Bros. Gun Works was deposed in a congressional hearing and he said that the only barrels Parker had ever made were during the years 1877, 1878, and 1879 and that they had manufactured them in segments. Also note the P on the barrel flat where the barrel steel was customarily stamped. The "P" is not, and never was, the designation stamp for any of the other barrel steel types that Parker Bros. used... (the later Laminated Steel tubes that Parker imported were stamped with an L - hence my strong belief that Parker Bros made them. And the different segments are quite clear in the pattern - a rear segment for both barrels and likewise, a front segment for each.

John Powers - I humbly apologize for hijacking your thread.

Back to your gun... I'm, very envious of yours.

[John Powers]

Since I don't have the barrels in hand, as they were sent off, I have additional photos of the barrels. Dean, no apology needed, thanks. Perhaps, I used fine loosely and if I remember correctly, it just has Damascus Steel on the top rib.

[Dean Romig]

There's the grade of your gun John - the 3 stamped directly above the four-digit order number.

[John Powers]

So, this would be a number grade and not a dollar grade?

[Dean Romig]

Right. at a quick scan in the Serialization book I see grade numbers back to serial no. 4400.

[Chuck Bishop]

Unfortunately for John's gun we have neither the order or stock book. There is a return for a new hammer in the order book but returns never identify the grade, just work done and price.

Don't get hung up too much on grading these early guns. When doing a letter and the order book is available I determine the grade of gun by the price in the order book. If I don't have the order book but do have the stock book, the grade number is listed along with the barrel steel. Examples are Dam2,Dam3, L1, Tit3, W7, etc. I'll use the stock book info to grade the gun, then go to the price list for that year or a year close to it and if the prices haven't changed it that year range, I'll put the price list year along with the grade and price at that time.

John's gun was made in 1878 and the price list doesn't give a grade. It lists different prices along with the guns specifications. In John's case it's clearly a D(3) hammergun which sold for $125.00. The letter would state it's a $125 Dollar Grade gun. The next price list is 1882 and Parker changed over to calling guns Quality Grade guns so John's research letter would have shown it as a Quality D. Later (around 1918) Parker dropped the "Quality" designation and just called them by their letter grades.

Clear as mud, huh!

[John Powers]

Thanks Chuck. Clear explanation, but learned you cannot always rely on the Parker Story volumes to be set in stone.

[Dean Romig]

And as Chuck will attest, it can be even more confusing in some cases because Parker Bros. often discounted guns for reasons that were not recorded and the lower than retail price can be misconstrued as a lower grade than what the gun actually is.

And, as well, a Grade 3 with Damascus barrels is shown in the Serialization book as a D3 and later when Titanic barrels were introduced (1897) it was shown as a TI3 (Not, as some believe, a T13).

[Fred Preston]

This is a most interesting thread for me, not just because John's gun is drop dead beautiful, but my 12465 is a close shirt tail relative; differences being, it has 30" plain twist barrels, no checking and no engraving except "Parker Bros." The barrel flats show only "U 5"; the lug shows the sn and frame size (2). The water table shows only the sn.

[Chuck Bishop]

These early grade 3 hammer guns had considerably less engraving than their top lever grade 3 guns. Dean, John, and my gun (http://parkerguns.org/forums/album.php?albumid=436) have the same engraving pattern and ball grips. Does anyone have a grade 3 lifter with similar engraving to the grade 3 top levers or was the sparse engraving standard on grade 3 lifters? My S/N is in the 17K range circa 1880.

[Dean Romig]

Chuck, I have a Grade 3 lifter with no dogs but birds.




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[Chuck Bishop]

It looks like the animals engraved varied but the basic pattern is the same for the 3 guns. Dean's doesn't have engraving on the side of the bolster. What year is that gun Dean? It's got the keyed for end . Is it a ball grip or just a round knob?

[Dean Romig]

It is an 1875 gun, no. 5949 and it has a really nice full ball grip. Pictures to follow as soon as I can get to my laptop.

OK, here are some pictures of the ball grip. These kinds of grip - the contour and feel - the easy way it pockets itself into your hand - may well have been the great-grandaddy of today's 'palm swell' grips.

We can also see why the forend checkering patterns were laid out like they were... it was all designed around the early 'keyed' forend latch system.




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[Jeff Kuss]

How about rabbits!

[Dean Romig]

Nice guns Jeff.

I wonder if Calvin's gun with the running rabbit on the bottom of the frame is a Grade 3?

[Dean Romig]

John Powers, the OP of this thread, gun also looks like it has a very nice ball grip too.