Anyone have a LC smith long range?

[Michael Muth]

I do not know much about these, but I'd love a classic 3" workhorse without paying for a mod 21 duck, for skittish roosters and spring turkey. Does anyone hunt with these? How are LC smiths in general? Any and all comments are welcome!

[Brian Dudley]

The long range guns are on the rarer side and command a good premium. All were built on the heavier "Regular" frame. Most are found with 32" barrels. They were made in the same varying grades that normal LCs were made in and were available with the same options as other guns. They will be marked with "Long Range" on the barrel lug so it is visible from the bottom of the frame and they will have the 3" chamber length marked on the barrel flats.

I personally have a Long range in Ideal grade with ejectors and DT that is a back burner restoration project that I will maybe get to one day. A customer of mine has a pretty unique Long range field grade that it is a factory 3 barrel set. Each barrel has its own forend. And one of the barrels are 24" in length and choked/regulated for shooting Buck Shot.

Smiths are solidly built guns that have the common issues of cracks in the stock heads and behind the locks. The rotary bolting (same used on Fox and Ithaca NID guns) is very good for pretty much guaranteeing a tight gun.

One would expect to pay at least a couple thousand for a unmolested Long range field and the prices go up from there depending on grade and condition.

[Frank Cronin]

If you plan on shooting your LC a lot or use heavy loads, I would get the head of the stock glass bedded to prevent cracks.

[Jerry Parise]

Hi Michael,
If you really want a long range Stephen Cobb has one in outstanding condition. I personally do not think that you can find one in better original condition than the one he has for sale. Google on Stephen Cobb Quality Guns and his site will come up. The pictures are decent quality and will give you a good idea of the condition. I have bought several guns from Steve over the years and can vouch for his integrity. Good luck in your search.

[Ken Descovich]

I have a Specialty grade long range with straight grip it is my go to gun I use for both hunting and competition when I am shooting 12 ga.
Ken

[charlie cleveland]

i have a field grade long range gun 32 inch full and full..and then i got a nother set of barrels that are 3 inch with modified chokes i use this barrel for ducks....ias brian said most longe range guns are in the 2000 range but now and then one like mine will come along at 1000 or less....my gun shoots a 92 percent pattern at 40 steps....charlie

[Rick Losey]

One just closed on GB for $1000

[Patrick Lien]

LC Smith also made 3" guns that where stamped "wild fowl" on the bottom lug. During WW2 the army air corp ordered some of these 3" Smith guns for gunner training. There is a bomb stamped on these guns and when found will fetch a bit more $$$. I have owned several of these LC Smith guns in field and ideal grade. Sold them all and put the money on a 3 frame Parker GH 12ga with 32" barrels....... Way better gun :0)


Patrick

[Michael Muth]

LC Smith also made 3" guns that where stamped "wild fowl" on the bottom lug. During WW2 the army air corp ordered some of these 3" Smith guns for gunner training. There is a bomb stamped on these guns and when found will fetch a bit more $$$. I have owned several of these LC Smith guns in field and ideal grade. Sold them all and put the money on a 3 frame Parker GH 12ga with 32" barrels....... Way better gun :0)


Patrick

What Parker model took 3"? Also what loads do you shoot out of older sxs 3" guns?

[Rick Losey]

LC Smith also made 3" guns that where stamped "wild fowl" on the bottom lug. During WW2 the army air corp ordered some of these 3" Smith guns for gunner training. There is a bomb stamped on these guns and when found will fetch a bit more $$$. I have owned several of these LC Smith guns in field and ideal grade. Sold them all and put the money on a 3 frame Parker GH 12ga with 32" barrels....... Way better gun :0)


Patrick

one of the Smith Wildfowl model - with the ordinance marking also just sold on GB $550 (had some issues) but it was not marked as a 3"

[Michael Muth]

one of the Smith Wildfowl model - with the ordinance marking also just sold on GB $550 (had some issues) but it was not marked as a 3"

It certainly is a buyers market right now.

[Brian Dudley]

I am not sure if the "Wild Fowl" marked guns all had 3" chambers.

[Dave Noreen]

At the time the Super-Fox was introduced, 1922-23, Western Cartridge Co. had just introduced the 12-gauge Super-X 1 1/4 ounce load in their 2 3/4 inch FIELD shell --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Western%20Cartridge%20Co/EarlySuper-X12-gaboxSuperExcellant.jpg

and 20-gauge 1 ounce Super-X loads in their 2 3/4 inch FIELD shell --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Western%20Cartridge%20Co/Early%20Super-X%2020-gauge%20box%20Super%20Excellant_zpsfkpb0edh.jpg

and right after that the 2 9/16 inch 1 1/8 ounce 16-gauge Super-X load also in the FIELD shell.

Pretty quickly thereafter Hunter Arms Co. jumped on the bandwagon with their L.C. Smith "Long Range."

Western Cartridge Co. finally got the 12-gauge 3-inch Super-X load of 1 3/8 ounce of shot on the market by late 1924 or early 1925 and A.H. Fox Gun Co. began inserting this little slip in their Super-Fox brochures --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/A%20H%20Fox%20Gun%20Co/ToOwnersofSuperFoxGunsnoticeslip.jpg

Western put up their 12-gauge 3-inch Super-X in their high brass RECORD shell --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Western%20Cartridge%20Co/Super-X3-in12Record.jpg

The 12-gauge 3-inch Magnum with 1 5/8 ounce of shot was introduced in 1935, when Winchester introduced their Model 12 Heavy Duck.

Parker Bros. responded to the Super-Fox and the Long Range with this --

Parker Long Range -- In the 1929 "Flying Geese" catalogue the Brothers P had this to say -- "Magnum, Super, and variously named guns about which so much is now being written are not a new development in the gun makers' art.

For the past twenty years Parker Brothers have made guns to handle heavy charges of powder and shot, giving good patterns at long range. Recent improvements in powder and by shell manufacturers have served to make the Parker Long Range gun even more effective, so that today the Parker built and bored to secure the full power of modern loads with which one may confidently expect to bring down game at distances a few years ago considered impossible, is up to date but not new.

Parker Long Range guns are built to guard the user against abnormal recoil. The weight of the barrels is so distributed that the gun handles the heaviest loads with comfort. The purchaser of a Parker Long Range can rest assured that he will receive a gun, easy to handle, sufficiently heavy and properly bored to shoot the heaviest loads for the killing of wild fowl at extreme ranges."

The 1937 Remington era catalogue adds -- "Ordinarily Parker 12 gauge guns are chambered for shells up to and including 2 3/4 inches. These guns can be furnished with special long range choke boring to give more effective results at extreme ranges. 12 gauge double barrel guns, with the exception of the "Trojan" are also available with 3 inch chambers for use with maximum long range heavy loaded shells. So chambered, Parker guns are guaranteed to handle these shells properly."

"Parker 10 gauge guns are regularly chambered for 2 7/8 inch loads, but are also available with 3 1/2 inch chambers for use with maximum loads. No extra charge for a Parker Long Range Gun. Guns should never be used with shells longer than those for which they are chambered. See table of complete specifications on page 34."

[Craig Larter]

Dave: What weight gun in 12ga did Parker consider appropriate for a 1 1/4 oz load? #3 Frame 12ga?.

[Dave Noreen]

Pigeon loads were 1 1/4 ounce and Pigeon Guns had to be under eight pounds for many years, so 7 pounds 15 ounces were certainly adequate.

The Baker Gun Quarterly, Volume 5, No. 3, May 1900 -- One little article on the weights of Trap/Pigeon guns used by the likes of Capt. A.W. Money (8 pounds), C.W. Budd (7 pounds 14 ounces), H.D. Bates (7 pounds 13 ounces), R.O. Heikes (7 pounds 15 ounces), J.S. Fanning (7 pounds 15 ounces), W.R. Crosby (7 pounds 12 ounces), and Col. A.G. Courtney (7 pounds 14 ounces). There was no indication or claim that any of these shooters used a Baker Gun, and I know Capt. Money is normally listed shooting a Parker Bros. and Col. Courtney normally shot a Remington. Several of the others I know pimped for whoever was picking up the tab. At one point in time W.R. Crosby did some fine shooting with a Baker.

After the progressive burning powder, high velocity, loads came out, I'm not sure what weight they thought adequate.

[charlie cleveland]

would love to have one of these marked wild fowl with 3 inch chambers....charlie

[charlie cleveland]

even ithaca had a gun called a heavy field gun with 2 7/8 inch chambers. i bought one from russ jackson and used it on turkey with 3 inch shells with a load of 1 5/8...the shells being showed and the info given was really good....i hope you find a long range smith....watch gunbroker for one they come up fairly often you can buy a good shooter for under a 1000....charlie

[Dave Noreen]

even ithaca had a gun called a heavy field gun with 2 7/8 inch chambers. i bought one from russ jackson and used it on turkey with 3 inch shells with a load of 1 5/8

I've never seen such terminology used in an Ithaca Gun Co. catalogue or magazine ad. Ithaca Gun Co. introduced their Magnum-Ten in the second printing of their 1932 catalogue --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Ithaca%20and%20Lefever/Magnum-TenAnnouncement1_zps81a6d266.jpeg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Ithaca%20and%20Lefever/Magnum-TenAnnouncement2_zps7ca388c0.jpeg

The Magnum-Ten was built on a beefed up, lengthened, version of their NID with the barrel lug extending into a recess on the bottom. The first Magnum-Ten going to Chas. Askins --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Ithaca%20and%20Lefever/500000closeup.jpg

and made famous by Elmer Keith. Beginning in their 1937 catalogues Ithaca began offering a 12-gauge 3-inch Magnum built on the same big NID frame as the Magnum-Ten. The ones I've handled were plenty hefty!! They only produced 87 of them.

[Mills Morrison]

Wish I had seen that wildfowl Rochester ordnance Smith. What were the issues?

[Rick Losey]

Wish I had seen that wildfowl Rochester ordnance Smith. What were the issues?

just a little rough over-all - but the size of the holes in the rib concerned me
but at that price - still might have take a shot at it if it was also marked 3"

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=494801365

[Mills Morrison]

Those holes do not look good, I agree. We have a moratorium on buying guns now, so probably best I did not see

[Rick Losey]

We have a moratorium on buying guns now,


so you have said

but you rose to this like a wild brookie to a royal coachman

:whistle:

[Mills Morrison]

The moratorium is barely holding on

[CraigThompson]

so you have said

but you rose to this like a wild brookie to a royal coachman

:whistle:

Yuck a "Mr.Rapidan is far superior !

On "The Rapidan" generally sizes 14-20 :bigbye:

[Michael Muth]

Can the long ranges take modern 3"?

[Rick Losey]

its still 70 - 80 year old wood

i expect if the barrels are in original condition they could, I am sure someone like Researcher can tell us the standard proof pressures of 1930 Vs now

[Dave Noreen]

Pressure isn't the issue. SAAMI spec for 12-gauge (except for the new 3 1/2 inch) was then/is now 11500 psi. Up to 1935, 1 3/8 ounce was the heaviest payload being pushed out of the 3-inch 12-gauge progressive burning powder shells, and after that the 1 5/8 ounce 12-gauge 3-inch Magnum load was available.

Some of the older 12-gauge 2 3/4 inch and longer shells, with the heaviest loads which our North American ammunition manufacturers offered, 3 1/2 drams of bulk smokeless powder or 28 grains of dense smokeless powder pushing 1 1/4 ounce of shot, had pressures above what SAAMI specs are now according to several old DuPont powder booklets I have. Then again, those booklets were promoting their DuPont Oval progressive burning smokeless powder and its higher velocity and lower pressure.

I'd certainly stick with lead and the softer non-toxics, no steel or other harder non-toxics. Though I shot quite a few 1 5/8 ounce 3-inch Magnums in my Super-Fox in my youth, I'd probably stick to 1 3/8 ounce at no more than 1300 fps now days.

[Michael Muth]

Pressure isn't the issue. SAAMI spec for 12-gauge (except for the new 3 1/2 inch) was then/is now 11500 psi. Up to 1935, 1 3/8 ounce was the heaviest payload being pushed out of the 3-inch 12-gauge progressive burning powder shells, and after that the 1 5/8 ounce 12-gauge 3-inch Magnum load was available.

Some of the older 12-gauge 2 3/4 inch and longer shells, with the heaviest loads which our North American ammunition manufacturers offered, 3 1/2 drams of bulk smokeless powder or 28 grains of dense smokeless powder pushing 1 1/4 ounce of shot, had pressures above what SAAMI specs are now according to several old DuPont powder booklets I have. Then again, those booklets were promoting their DuPont Oval progressive burning smokeless powder and its higher velocity and lower pressure.

I'd certainly stick with lead and the softer non-toxics, no steel or other harder non-toxics. Though I shot quite a few 1 5/8 ounce 3-inch Magnums in my Super-Fox in my youth, I'd probably stick to 1 3/8 ounce at no more than 1300 fps now days.

Thank you!