A Lucky Gunbroker Winner

[Dean Romig]

Congratulations to Mr. "dogon" for winning gunbroker auction number 495230407.

This gun, 62862 is a fine example of the earliest of GH guns as evidenced by its serial number and also by the very early engraving style. It is a 12 gauge built on the 1-frame size with original 27" barrels. Not only is the gun in very nice original condition, but it may very well be the only Parker GH made with Laminated Steel barrels. The top rib explicitly is stamped "Damascus Steel" but the composite pattern is clearly that of Laminated Steel pattern. Further, the right barrel flat is clearly stamped "L" for Laminated Steel.
In the Grades section of The Parker Story under the Grade 2 section, there are no GH grades recorded as having been made with Laminated Steel barrels. and to me everything looks original except the shortened stock (by 3/4") according to the stock book records.

Congrats Mr. "Dogon"

[Patrick Lien]

Dean,
I see Damascus barrels on this gun. Nice early GH

Patrick

[Pete Lester]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=495230407

[Dean Romig]

I contacted the seller before the gun sold and he sent me these hi-res pictures.

It's Laminated Steel if ever I saw one.

The Laminated pattern is especially evident in the picture of the muzzle end of the top of the barrels.

Don't be fooled by the top and bottom ribs which were made of strips of Damascus Steel.




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[Bill Murphy]

A scarce and unusual gun, even without the Laminated barrels. I would have been very interested. I still don't see a good view of the "L" on the flat. Sure would like to see the letter on that gun.

[Mills Morrison]

Good candidate for Parkers found if the winner is a PGCA member

[greg conomos]

All that said....$1750 is not 'stealing' a non-steel early GH in 'typical' condition with a very short (probably cut) LOP.

[Dean Romig]

I don't believe any of us suggested that.

[Mills Morrison]

There was a G lifter with laminated barrels on Gunbroker last year. The condition was not the greatest, but it had some interesting engraving, in addition to the laminated barrels

[Mills Morrison]

I would like to see the letter on that one. Sounds like an upland gun. I wonder if it was special ordered for a lady, youth or smaller shooter?

[Bill Murphy]

The "stock book records"?

[Dean Romig]

Bill, how would you have said it?

As for the length, the existing records (stock book or not) show it leaving Meriden with a 13 3/4" LOP. Judging by the reshaped butt plate, I would guess it didn't go back to Meriden to have the stock shortened.

[Bill Murphy]

I was just curious about access to the stock books. Of course, as editor of our journal, access should be easy. How about those of us who have had legitimate research projects in the past, but have had access denied? No disrespect meant to Dean, only to our BOD. I am too old to hold back my disappointment in some of our present and past directors.

[greg conomos]

I guess by 'stealing' I was referring to the term 'lucky' used to describe the new owner. I assumed that meant he got a good deal.

[Paul Ehlers]

Hi Everyone !

I'm the one who pulled the trigger on this one. The attraction for me was the barrels. I like one off type guns. When I see one like this it keeps talking to me until I either have to do something about it or play mind games with myself to get over it.

I looked the GB auction over & at first just said to myself "Oh another Grade 2" Then when I enlarged the pictures I noticed the barrel pattern was something out of the norm. I then made a quick check of the serialization book about the barrel length "Sure enough 27" Then off to the Parker story to see how many grade-2 12ga hammerless guns made with 27" Damascus barrels. The count was 24 total "None with Laminated" Now it's time to ask some questions of the seller. The usual stuff about barrel condition dents, pits, bulges etc. also what type steel did it say on the top rib & what letter was stamped in the barrel flat. He told me the top rib states Damascus steel & the letter on the flats is a "D" "It still looks like an L in the pictures" I then asked for the pictures he mentioned in the ad. After reviewing the pictures it was fairly well confirmed in my mind that the barrels were Laminated rather than D-2 standard Damascus. I then went back to the Parker story "Only this time to Vol-2 in the barrels chapter" In this chapter there is mention that the factory first used laminated rough tubes imported from England from 1868 to 1893 "This gun was made in 1891" Also in this chapter they show pictures of the Birmingham provisional proof mark for Laminated steel. If you look at the ad in the picture of the barrel flats you can see this proof mark. All of this put together made me want to pull the trigger on this one.

I again contacted the seller, cut a deal & now I'm waiting to get the gun in hand. A letter on will be ordered post hast.

On a personal note:

My 58th birthday is this Sunday and this is my present to myself. My feeling is not all gun purchases need to be bargain basement deals. Some of them are simply because the gun talk's to you and you have to do something about it.

[Dean Romig]

I assumed that meant he got a good deal.


All I meant by "Lucky" was that someone bought what I consider to be a collectible Parker GH specifically because of the barrel steel but also because of the earliest Grade 2 hammerless engraving, the unusual length of the barrels, the 1-frame size, the very nice original condition of the gun (with the exclusion o the stock being cut)... not anything to do with the price.

[Richard Flanders]

That seems a pretty reasonable price for a G grade that looks that nice. The receiver looks very nice, the bbl pattern unique. I like it a lot! I have a 1-frame 26" GHE12 and it is a joy to carry, and I paid a LOT more for it than this one went for.

[Dean Romig]

Congratulations Paul. You went through nearly the same channels I did when I first saw this gun on gunbroker.
Please let us know when you receive the gun exactly what that letter stamp is... I'm still convinced it is a L but I'll believe you when you finally see it up close. If it is a D then the right upper quadrant of the D didn't strike very deeply.

Again, Congratulations on a very nice gun.

[Eldon Goddard]

Great find. 27'' is interesting enough but to have possibly the only Laminate Steel GH is something else.

[David Noble]

Dean, you did the due diligence, why didn't you end up with this jewel?
Or did Paul just beat you to the punch?

[Paul Ehlers]

The letter request is in.

I'm really looking forward to getting the gun in hand to see it up close. I'll let everyone know my thoughts after I see it first hand.

Dean; Thank you for all the kind words & thoughts about this gun.

[Dean Romig]

Dean, you did the due diligence, why didn't you end up with this jewel?
Or did Paul just beat you to the punch?

I simply allowed myself to get 'hung up' on the shortened stock. If it hadn't been cut I would have hit the "Buy It Now" button when it first hit that website. The BIN price was very reasonable.
I suspected something had been done to the stock as evidenced by the re-contoured toe perimeter of the buttplate I saw in a picture the seller sent me.

Again, Congratulations Paul. :cheers:

[Ed Blake]

I think $1,750 is a good price for that gun. Honest condition and the barrels look uncut to me.

[edgarspencer]

I simply allowed myself to get 'hung up' on the shortened stock.
That is why we are very lucky to have amongst our group, a very talented few craftsmen, who turn our "dubious" purchases into 'keepers'. Names like Dawe, and Dudley, to name a few.

[Paul Ehlers]

I made a note on the letter application to look for any notations about the type of barrel steel and the LOP. The seller in the ad stated 13.1 " for length of pull "what ever 13.1 means to him ? "

If the stock has been cut, someone did one heck of a nice job refitting the DHBP after doing so. The widow's peak fit is beautiful, the profile is dead on, the screws are timed correctly etc. The only question is as Dean mentioned in that the border outline is weak at the lower portion "toe" of the plate.

I didn't ask about LOP specifically because the barrels had me sold on the purchase.

[Paul Ehlers]

I'm absolutely amazed that the letter for this gun was in my mail box today. I just sent for it on-line on the 23rd & it's here in Denver on the 27th.

There's good news and some gray area information contained in it.

The good news is the 27" barrel length is confirmed. One of the gray areas though is the barrel type is listed as Damascus. Then there is a notation that there was a $6.00 credit given for barrels furnished. Now I'm wondering if that was due to the Laminated steel tubes or the 27" length. I'm leaning toward the Laminated side!!

The potential not so good news is the length of pull was 13 3/4" when it shipped from Meridan. Now I have to get the gun in hand so I can see what LOP the gun is wearing now. The other interesting thing is the gun was returned to the fatcory in December of 1900 to take out dents, clean & rebrown, blue the iron parts, redress stock & forearm and clean out the checkering. I take it redress means to refinish, but I now wonder if the stock may have been shortened at that time also?

The gun was ordered by an L.H. Mayott of Springfield, MA. on Aug 8 1890 delivered Dec 1 1890. The gun was returned by Howard C. French of Northhampton, MA. on Dec 13, 1900

Anyone know anything about either of these men?

I was notified today that the gun has been shipped. Will post my findings after I inspect the gun.

[Dean Romig]

Interesting stuff Paul.

The "barrels furnished" most likely came from a grade-1 top-action hammer gun made in the 1880's or early 1890's. I've owned a few of those, all 16 gauge guns made on the lightened 0-frame. The barrels I just received back from Brad are from such a gun.

I live in MA. but am not familiar with any history on either of those former owners.

Your barrels have good remaining contrast and condition. This is how they would look if refinished by Brad Bachelder.




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[Chuck Bishop]

Paul, the Damascus steel designation is found in both the order and stock book. What the credit for "barrels furnished" means I have no clue and there's no one ask at the factory, they are all dead! Looking at the picture, the stock length doesn't look real short, maybe he was measuring from the rear trigger. That's a real nice gun, congratulations.

Glad you liked the quick response on the research letter. Online does speed things up if you are in a hurry. As soon as Mary get's the request and confirmation on payment, she send it to me right away. I usually try to get the letters done within a day or two of receiving the request. All I do is sit around the house eating bon- bons and doing letters:whistle:

P.S. Truth be told, I don't type the entire letter. Word templates are a great thing! Just fill in a few things and do a lot of cut and paste!

[edgarspencer]

Mayott was a large and fairly well known sporting goods store in Springfield, MA, from before the turn of the century. I have had a couple guns that were ordered by them.

[Paul Ehlers]

Dean: Thank you for the picture of your barrels. The laminate pattern really pop's on them. I always love to see Brad's work. He currently is restoring an early style engraving Grade -2 O-Frame 16ga & a B-Grade Damascus 12 of mine.

Chuck: Thanks again for the great service on the letter. It will be very helpful when I inspect the gun.

Edgar: Thanks for the information on Mayott sporting goods. I'll do some research on them when I get a chance.

[Bill Murphy]

Among the pictures posted, I have not seen the view of the buttplate. Is there such a picture?

[Paul Ehlers]

The view of the butt plate was in the pictures the seller sent me. I'm sure Dean got the same pictures as well.

Maybe Dean has one he can post. I don't have access to my pictures right now.

[Dean Romig]

I just so happen to have saved the pics he sent me.

Actually, now that I look at it again, the border of the buttplate has been trimmed down around its entire perimeter to fit it to the shortened stock. In this way, it's not as displeasing as I had originally thought.

Nonetheless, it shows very little wear at all.

Oh well... y'all know what they say about "He who hesitates..."


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[Paul Ehlers]

I've had a chance to look the gun over now. Overall I'm very pleased with it. Dean is correct in that the stock has been shortened by 1/2" & is now 13 1/4" LOP. With a slip-on pad I'll be able to shoot it just fine.

The barrels measure 27" dead on the money & are definitely Laminated rather than the standard Damascus found on grade-2 guns. The top rib is marked Damascus steel & the stamp on the barrel flats is a "D" rather than an "L" as speculated. I talked to Brad Bachelder about this and he said he has seen one other set of Parker laminated barrels marked as this gun is.

It does have one small dent in the left barrel. I will be sending it off to Brad to have the dent removed, a good cleaning done & the scratches in the stock finish taken care of.

It's a sweet gun that weigh's in at 6lb 13oz with .018" constrictions in each bore.

[Dean Romig]

I'm very pleased for you Paul.

Will you leave the barrels as they are (plenty of pattern and contrast still showing) or will you have Brad refinish them?

[Paul Ehlers]

I would love to leave the barrels as they are. Unfortunately there has been some recent damage done to the gun from poor handleing. I suspect from the last owner. "The gun was on consignment"

Around the dent in the left barrel there are several small bright shiny scratches in the finish. There is also a small scratch on the bottom floor plate as well. The floor plate is no big deal, but I'm afraid that the barrel marks will require a total re-black to make things right. I'll leave it up to Brad for the final say. The scratches in the stock finish are freshly done as well. To bad whoever had the gun didn't take better care of it while in it was their hands.

I talked to the seller about all this & he is making things right by giving a $200.00 cash refund as compensation for the lack of disclosure on the barrel issues. He's a real stand-up guy for doing so!

[Dean Romig]

Sheesh,,, $200 off the price indicated on the GB makes me wish I had stuck it out a bit longer.

[Paul Ehlers]

Sorry Dean ! The way my luck has been lately, I'm amazed I beat you to it. This purchase has been the highlight of this past month for me.

All I can say is: If I ever decide to part with it, I'll put you first in line for it.

[Mills Morrison]

That will get you a good start on the refinishing. Glad one of our members snagged this one. Can't wait to see the finished product

[Mark Ray]

This tells me how much i have to learn!,, i am a dedicated gun auction/site troller, and do fairly well....but skimmed over this gun thinking cut barrels/ cut stock.....without doing the right due diligence. Great find!,,,cannot wait to see this gun after clean up.

[Dean Romig]

Paul, I sincerely hope the barrels are all that will be refinished.

[Paul Ehlers]

Dean:I hear what you are saying.

The scratches on the right side of the stock are really ugly IMO. I feel they need to be addressed as well. I'll have Brad give me his opinion on the best way to deal with them. The one thing I won't even consider is having the case hardening redone. IMO the original case colors are somewhere around 60-70% and look really nice this way.

I only will have Brad do what is necessary to clean the gun up to make it good to go for the next hundred years.

[Dean Romig]

Dean:I hear what you are saying.

The scratches on the right side of the stock are really ugly IMO. I feel they need to be addressed as well. I'll have Brad give me his opinion on the best way to deal with them.

Yes Paul - the wood can have a refinish without the checkering being recut. That's probably the way to go with the scratches.

The one thing I won't even consider is having the case hardening redone. IMO the original case colors are somewhere around 60-70% and look really nice this way.

I agree on that route.

I only will have Brad do what is necessary to clean the gun up to make it good to go for the next hundred years.


Well done Paul!

[Bill Murphy]

As long as the gun is at Brad's, I would have the barrels completely repaired and refinished. Laminated barrels are beautiful when "new". I will have my 20 gauge PH Laminated steel gun redone some day.

[Dean Romig]

Bill, Paul, and others... The barrels on Pauls "new" GH are in very nice original condition and clearly exhibit what a well cared-for Laminated Steel set of barrels should look like. It is my opinion that it should remain in that state. Paul has seen the Laminated Steel barrels that I just got back from Brad and has expressed his appreciation, but he knows what he has.

[Paul Ehlers]

I'll see what I can do in the next few days to get pictures of the damage I've been talking about.

I have a lot of balls in the air right now, so it may be later in the week before I have time. I think when you see pictures. You will understand where I'm coming from about the repairs.

All the checkering needs is a good gentle cleaning. I don't see anywhere that a tool needs to be used.

[Paul Ehlers]

Here's a few pictures as promised. Anyone ever see a grip cap like this one on a Parker?

The silver spot on the barrels is where the dent in the left tube is. The picture doesn't show it, but it is visible in the bore.

[Paul Ehlers]

Here's a few more showing these laminated barrels & the actual markings on the gun.

It's really a shame some ham-handed individual caused the recent damage to this gun. It's why I'm sending it to Brad to see what he can do to correct the issues.

[Dean Romig]

Very, very nice Paul.

Nope, never seen a grip cap like that one on a Parker.

What a great condition gun to showcase those unique barrels.

[Mills Morrison]

If anyone can do the gun right, Brad Bachelder can. I have not used him directly but have a gun or two that he worked his magic on.

[Erick Dorr]

Nice gun. I've never seen that grip cap on a Parker but the screw looks right. I wouldn't replace it but I might check to see if it has the pins on the underside out of curiosity. Hey its got 27" barrels, why couldn't it have come from the factory with that cap also?
Erick

[Paul Ehlers]

I will leave the grip cap on the gun. It's fit is perfect, the screw is engraved & timed correctly and it's obviously very old and been on the gun a long time.

It's just one more mystery about this gun to go along with the 27" barrels & the Laminated tubes used on them.

[Mills Morrison]

That is a good candidate for Parkers Found and also for a Parker Pages article. It is a unique and special Parker all around

[Dean Romig]

And a good gun for a feature article in Parker Pages.

[Paul Ehlers]

Dean:

I've been thinking it would make for an interesting acticle in the Parker Pages. I don't know if I should wait until Brad works his magic or not. A before and after might be a nice way to go on this one.

[Dean Romig]

I agree with the before & after suggestion.

[Mills Morrison]

Before and after is always cool

[Paul Ehlers]

The gun is now on it's way to Brad's.

I'll let you know what he has to say about it.

[Paul Ehlers]

I've now had the chance to speak with Brad about the gun.

We came to the conclusion that he will remove the dent in the left tube carefully and not re-do the barrel finish. He was of the opinion the original finish was in too nice of shape & the few small scratches should just be left alone. He is going to address the scratches on the stock while preserving the original finish & patina as much as possible. Other than that it will just get a good over-all cleaning.

We did have a good discussion about the laminated barrels on this gun. Brad seemed to be a little stumped about them. He indicted that he hasn't seen this particular pattern on a Parker let alone a hammerless gun. He is doing some research to identify the actual pattern & will get back to me about it. He is also stumped about the grip cap. He said he has never seen a cap like this one. He did agree that it does look original to the gun and should be left alone.

Over all it looks like this is one for the books in the never say never department. I'm really looking forward to getting it back in my hands and seeing the magic of Brad's work to preserve this one for the ages.

[Mills Morrison]

Thanks for keeping us posted about this interesting gun. That shows a lot of wisdom on yours and Brad's part.

[Dean Romig]

Paul and Brad - I completely agree with the route you've decided on for that GH.

I can't wait to see the finished product... not that it will have changed much.





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[Paul Ehlers]

Got the call from Bachelder's today. The gun is on the way home. I can't wait to see it!!!

[Mills Morrison]

We can't either!