Winchester 21 or Parker DH?

[Michael Muth]

I am torn about which one to purchase, roughly the same price, both in 12. I have a Parker vhe 20, so this could add to a growing collection, plus I own a setter, and I've always wanted a setter engraved gun, so that's a plus. Please help me decide gentlemen!

[Dean Romig]

Seriously?

You're asking a bunch of Parker fanatics that question?

I offer a resounding PARKER!!

[Michael Muth]

Seriously?

You're asking a bunch of Parker fanatics that question?

I offer a resounding PARKER!!

I know seriously! I love Parkers too! So your telling me you've never been tempt d by 21s...

[King Brown]

I wouldn't accept a Model 21 if it were offered to me for free. I have too many guns now. It's a well-made, strong gun but nothing---neither its appearance or provenance as a classic--- distinguishes it as the gun for me. The Parker beats it hands-down.

[Mark Ray]

Michael, i am a fairly new sxs collector, but a long time sxs shooter and hunter. This may sound nuts, but in the last six or seven years, i have purchsed 20 or 25 doubles, and sold about five of the ones I have bought. Among those were two 21's, a 28" 16 and a 30" straight stock 12. I cannot put my finger on it, but.......neither of those shotguns felt, handled, balanced or shot as well as the Bakers, Elsies, Lefefevers Fox's or definitely not the Parkers I have had in my hands. And the prices a collectable, shootable 21 demands are in my opinion out of kilter (thankfully) with most of the rest of the classic american sxs choices.

Just my personal opiniom for what it is worth. A DH Parker is a work of art!,,

[Michael Muth]

This will be in the rotation for upland hunting fyi. I'm leaning towards the Parker, just wanted to hear what you fine collectors had to say. I'm a fine bolt gun guy so just soliciting opinions!

[Michael Muth]

Michael, i am a fairly new sxs collector, but a long time sxs shooter and hunter. This may sound nuts, but in the last six or seven years, i have purchsed 20 or 25 doubles, and sold about five of the ones I have bought. Among those were two 21's, a 28" 16 and a 30" straight stock 12. I cannot put my finger on it, but.......neither of those shotguns felt, handled, balanced or shot as well as the Bakers, Elsies, Lefefevers Fox's or definitely not the Parkers I have had in my hands. And the prices a collectable, shootable 21 demands are in my opinion out of kilter (thankfully) with most of the rest of the classic american sxs choices.

Just my personal opiniom for what it is worth. A DH Parker is a work of art!,,

Ok thank you! Good to know!

[Phillip Carr]

I wouldn't accept a Model 21 if it were offered to me for free. I have too many guns now. It's a well-made, strong gun but nothing---neither its appearance or provenance as a classic--- distinguishes it as the gun for me. The Parker beats it hands-down.

Here is one that might tempt you it did me. I love my Parker's but I find the appearance pleasing, and handles quit nice. It's a 20 gauge Grade 6 with 28" barrels. Started life as a field grade in 1941 sent back to the factory in 1945 for upgrade. George Ulrich engraved. I think most of us have found a little space for some non Parker SXS. My suggestion is handle both guns, and shoot them if you can. Buy the gun you will use.

http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/49837_600x400.jpg (http://www.jpgbox.com/page/49837_600x400/)
http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/49838_600x400.jpg (http://www.jpgbox.com/page/49838_600x400/)
http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/49839_600x400.jpg (http://www.jpgbox.com/page/49839_600x400/)

[Mark Ray]

Phil, that is good advice. But, as I said....just my opinion. BTW, an ultra custom gun like yours would probably turn my head also! I have a feeling though that you could buy a pretty snazzy BH or CH for the same money.

At the end of the day, its the gun that feels the best, and that you SHOOT the best, that is the right choice.

I do know this, i financed about 6 acquisitions of graded guns with the sale of thise two 21's.

[Mike Franzen]

Model 21 is a fine gun but a DH Parker is something very special. Parker gun works built nothing but shotguns and they have acquired a mystique unmatched by any other American maker. Either buy them both or choose the Parker.

[CraigThompson]

21's have never over enthused me . Except a 16 gauge skeet we had in the shop for repair last year !

The gun needed a little work but I liked it and tried to talk the owner out of it but to no avail !

[Craig Larter]

I own both plus Foxes and Elsies and would always select a DH over a Model 21. The Parker DH has it all over the 21 in terms of looks and class in my opinion. That being said my Model 21 Duck with 30" full choked barrels, a single trigger and splinter forend is a great waterfowl and clays gun.

[Dean Romig]

In answer to your question to me Michael, I've shot skeet model 21's in 20, 28, and 12 gauges and I've been offered a few at very attractive prices. IF I had bought any of them it would only have been to flip them at reasonable prices. I would not have kept any of them and all but one 12 ga. we're in excellent original condition. So, no, the temptation was never really there for me. JMHO

[Rick Losey]

I think Dean beat most of us to the expected answer

[Eric Eis]

I have had Model 21's in 12 ga,16 ga and 20 ga, both the 12 (which I hunted with for 7 years) and the 20 were too heavy for my taste. The reason I hunted with the 12 so long was it was my first SXS and I knew the action was strong (which it is) and could handle any load. The 20 just didn't do anything for me and I even had it custom engraved with two of my dogs :shock: so they both ended up going down the road. I picked up the 16 ga mainly for the strength of the action for the UP flurry which was 75 birds in 2 1/2 minutes, one man shooting and you had to shoot this for part of the competition and no one I talked to liked it. It was very hard on guns and I didn't want to put my Parkers through that again so I bought the 21 16 ga. it has a balance like no other 21, the 16 is built like the Parker on a 20 ga frame, so the 16 weighs less then the 20 and feels good in your hand. If your looking at a 12 ga for hunting it is Parker period the weight of the 21 will get to you by the end of the day. For shooting sports where weight is not a factor or is a plus pick the gun that feels best to you.

[Bobby Cash]

:bowdown:I understand this is the PGCA, but Mike asked...
With only a tenth of the production of the Parker Gun, still plenty of interesting 21's to covet.
Sorry for the visual rant.

Here's a 6lb 6oz 28" 20 gauge 2 barrel set.
WS2/IC, Full/Mod

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/2low8s/6d824c55-1c12-49a8-bf47-ed6a90624855_zpsk5sysjpv.jpg

Or a 6lb 12 oz 28" 12 gauge. Full/Mod

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/2low8s/Model%2021/photo%202_zps869mcqpc.jpg

A 30" 16 gauge at 6 and 3/4 pounds. Full/IMod
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/2low8s/photo12x_zpscf9476d0.jpg

How about a 6 pound 16 gauge choked LMod/IC?
30" F/F along for the ride.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/2low8s/Model%2021/1.jpg

A 30" 20 gauge, F/F ?? With 26" WS1/WS2.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/2low8s/b4_zpswaegjns9.jpg

First year 32" Vent Rib 12. F/F and absolutely slays them on the Continental Trap fields.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/2low8s/photo-2_zpsb9awe4jf.jpg

[Mills Morrison]

Maybe playing Devil's Advocate a little, the 21's are supposed to be the strongest built of the American doubles. If you wanted to shoot heavy loads, the 21 would be the one to get. If you want the custom, hand finish and engraving, the Parker is the way to go. Also, good, decent DH's seem to go in the $2,000-$3,000 range and 21's seem to start around $3,000 and go up from there - 12 gauges, of course

[Ed Blake]

Mills offers good advice. You have not mentioned condition, though. Are the actions tight, barrels in good shape? Parkers tend to get wobbly actions.

[greg conomos]

If I wanted to shoot heavy loads all the time I'd use a #3 frame Parker. But really....I think most of us would be lucky to shoot enough to wear out a Parker.

20 years ago I had a nice CHE 20 ga for sale. The son of a very well known 21 expert came to look at it. He looked it over and more or less wrinkled his nose and declared that it paled in every way to a 21. I didn't care much either way, but his comments made me curious about 21's. I bought THE book his father had written that covers 21's and dove in. To this day I am amazed anyone would rather have a 21, especially in light of the 'pimp my gun' engraving and single trigger setup they are prone to have.

[Bobby Cash]

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/2low8s/win24246Bmod21_zpsi8sjsa46.jpg

[Pete Lester]

:bowdown:I understand this is the PGCA, but Mike asked...
With only a tenth of the production of the Parker Gun, still plenty of interesting 21's to covet.
Sorry for the visual rant.

Or a 6lb 12 oz 28" 12 gauge. Full/Mod

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/2low8s/Model%2021/photo%202_zps869mcqpc.jpg



I always wondered what a straight stock Trojan would look like :rotf: Sorry couldn't help myself.

[Eric Eis]

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/2low8s/win24246Bmod21_zpsi8sjsa46.jpg

Bobby, do you agree that the 16 is the best balanced of the group. I love Parkers but I have to admit I really like that Model 21 16ga.

[greg conomos]

Clever marketing. Nothing more. Buy the gun, not the ad campaign.

[Mills Morrison]

It is too bad Parker did not make a dedicated magnum gun like the HE Super Fox or LC Smith Long Range. I understand they had some souped up 12's and 10's, but it is too bad they did not have a dedicated grade

[Bobby Cash]

Bobby, do you agree that the 16 is the best balanced of the group. I love Parkers but I have to admit I really like that Model 21 16ga.

The straight stocked 16 at 6 pounds is the lightest and liveliest of my modest cabinet. I've enjoyed carrying it for Quail and not too hard on the eyes.

I always wondered what a straight stock Trojan would look like :rotf: Sorry couldn't help myself.

PAH-LEEEEEASE!!


Here's an early "Tournament" 20 gauge with 30" IMod/LMod barrels
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/2low8s/Model%2021/winies047a-1.jpg

[Pete Lester]

It is too bad Parker did not make a dedicated magnum gun like the HE Super Fox or LC Smith Long Range. I understand they had some souped up 12's and 10's, but it is too bad they did not have a dedicated grade

Parker Bros. was not a fan of magnum cartridges or heavy loads, they were right but Americans certainly bought into bigger is better. It took me a long time to discover lighter is stunningly effective.

[Rich Anderson]

I know seriously! I love Parkers too! So your telling me you've never been tempt d by 21s...

I had a M21 a nice 20ga skeet gun. The operative was HAD. It's a nice gun but it's not a Parker.

[Jim DiSpagno]

Although proclaimed "strongest" American double, if its strength you want, then the Win model 24 is as strong as the 21 and at a fraction of the cost. If your want a tractor, buy a Deere, if you want a Cadillac, get a Parker JMHO

[Bobby Cash]

Tractor...no,
Monster truck...perhaps

1937 Custom Shop "Flatside", 26" WS1/WS2 at a svelte 8 pounds
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/2low8s/Model%2021/winies070a.jpg

[Ed Blake]

Although proclaimed "strongest" American double, if its strength you want, then the Win model 24 is as strong as the 21 and at a fraction of the cost. If your want a tractor, buy a Deere, if you want a Cadillac, get a Parker JMHO

Now if you want the uglist American double buy a M24. They are really two Model 37s stuck together. Winchester should have it called the Model 74.

[Mills Morrison]

Model 24's are not in any list of classic American doubles. At least, none I have seen

[Jim DiSpagno]

Mills, never said classic, just strong.

[greg conomos]

If I were stranded in the woods and could have only one gun it would be a 24. Not only could I shoot, I could also paddle water, drives stakes, and dig in rocky soil with it.

[Mark Ray]

you could use it for a snorkel too!!

[Richard Flanders]

The snorkel idea isn't as far out as you might think. A duck hunter got caught on the mud flats near Anchorage years back. Feet stuck solid and the bore tide started coming in. Someone got to him with a boat but couldn't pull him out; a rescue helicopter was called. By the time the helo arrived, a Hughey I think, the hunter was totally submerged and breathing through the boat guys shotgun barrel. They tied onto him with the heli and tried to gently pull him out... no luck. They pulled him in half in the effort. Pretty gruesome I'm sure. He is only one of many who have gotten stuck in those flats on foot and been drowned by the bore tide.

[Mark Ray]

Yikes!!!!!

[Rich Anderson]

1937 Custom Shop "Flatside", 26" WS1/WS2 at a svelte 8 pounds
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/2low8s/Model%2021/winies070a.jpg

I can't see anyway for a 26 inch barreled gun that weighs 8LBS being "svelte", not in my wildest dreams.:nono: My BHE 30 inch Pigeon gun is only slightly more than 8LBS on a #2 frame.

[John Cinkoske]

Back in about 1977, I was offered a Model 21 Duck Gun for $500.00.
Once I saw it I passed, that sucker rattled! It didn't latch tightly and was off face to boot. It was the loosest one I ever held.

[Stephen Hodges]

I have owned and shot a Model 21 in both 16 and 20 gauge. But not for long:rotf:

[Phillip Carr]

:):):)I didn't know just how Bad these 21's were, but just to show you I am a team player. I am offering 15 cents on the dollar for all 12 gauge 21's, and 18 cents on the dollar for all sub-gauges. If you are more inclined to trades I have some Cresents I will trade straight across the board. I reserve the right to limit my buying to 25 guns.:)

[Gerald McPherson]

I would have a Ithaca 280 or 100. They are not so ugly. IMHO.

[Rich Anderson]

One of my early SXS's was an Ithaca SKB M150 20ga. It had 25 inch bbls choked IC/M as I recall. I sold it to a friend over 25 years ago and he still uses it.

[Bill Zachow]

Ed, winchester did make a model 74, a semi-auto .22. Made from about 1938 to 1954. Kind of a homely sucker, like the 24, but shoots good and was all steel and walnut, just like a Parker. I bought my first one last week as I am getting back into Winchester .22s. Was collecting Winchesters long before I got into Parkers. I did have a 21 in my earlier days-a 30s Tournement in 12 gauge. Too heavy like so many here have mentioned. Sold it quite a few years ago.

[charlie cleveland]

if i wanted a gun for being tough and indstructible almost it would be a sterling fox secound would be a 1940 smodel stevens or the 1950 s model....would not mind owning a model 21 winchester but for the most were always to high for my pocket book....charlie

[Mills Morrison]

I have a hard time with the prices they bring myself. I want one because it is a classic American shotgun and I could always use another heavy duty duck gun

[Bill Murphy]

I kind of detect the odor of a group of posters who not only have not owned a Model 21, but have not had one to touch. The 21 is not a Parker, and a Parker is not a 21, but they are both wonderful guns. Like a few of those who have posted, I have touched a 21, and have owned them for exactly fifty years now. I am a Parker guy, but have owned a couple of dozen Model 21s also. One 16 skeet had a messy trigger that was probably made worse by Lefever Arms and Jaegers. I have had one 21 with a loose forend lug. That is the extent of my problems. The "heavy load" myth is another big lie. The 3" 12 gauge Parker was made on the light #1 1/2 frame, so frame integrity is not a factor. Give us a break. The 21 is not an unattractive gun when equipped with nice wood. The "heavy" or "too heavy" myth is another lie perpetrated by the uninformed gun press. Most 3" Model 21s, mine are examples, weigh much less than eight pounds, most around 7 pounds 10 ounces with 30" barrels. A 20 or 16 Model 21 can be set up at 6 pounds, or a little more, similar to a Parker. The factory 3" 20 gauge Parker is much heavier than a factory 3" 20 gauge Model 21.

[Eric Eis]

Bill, I still think the Model 21 16 ga has the best balance of all the gauges, it is just a nice pointing gun.

[James L. Martin]

I own and hunt with both Parkers and 21's ,they are both great guns, try a 20ga 21 with double triggers and a splinter forend and you might change your mind on how a 21 feels.

[Bill Murphy]

My 20 gauge 28" double trigger 21 weighs six pounds, four ounces, the same as most of my 0 frame 20 and 16 gauge Parkers. It is now owned by a friend in my gun club.

[Frank Cronin]

I don't get the Model 21 bashing either.

I love my three digit serial # Model 21 twelve gauge with double triggers and splinter forend.

It has the original factory chokes marked mod, full and nice dense patterns 70% in the right barrel and 83% in the left.

She weighs 7.5# and I shoot it well.

[Byron Teates]

I truly enjoy my 16 gauge parker VH. It has its place as a great carry field gun that makes the miles of walking for pheasants pleasant. I also own a Model 21 trap gun bored full and full that is a very handsome gun, that is at home on the sporting clay course as well as Hunting when you don't have to carry it all day. They both have a time and place to be carried and used.

I have other SXS's that I also enjoy depending on the day and sport that I would rather shoot and not worry about screwing up a $5K-12K gun. Just another tool in the tool box.

Just My opinion...

Byron...

[legh higgins]

how can I avoid seeing any more model 21s on this site?
or a dh parker come on!:rotf:

[Bobby Cash]

28" ,double trigger 20 gauge, 6 pounds even.
P&M21GCA

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/2low8s/winies052.jpg

[Mike Franzen]

I have wanted a gun like this since it was featured in the DGJ

[Rich Anderson]

You would think that a two barrel set would be the epitome of versatility. My experience with them is that only one set of barrels is used 95% of the time. the Hollywood gun is a skeet/trap set and the trap barrels have never been on the gun in the 9 years I've had it. I have an AAHE up grade 28 with a second set of 28ga barrels from James Purdy that have been on the gun only a couple of times.

[Mills Morrison]

Rich is right about two barrel sets. The only thing the extra set is good for is enabling you to say you have a two barrel set

[John Dallas]

I have a M21 20 gauge skeet grade 2 bbl set 26" were used for grouse until I decided not to carry a $12K stumpknocker. The 30" bbls are great for preserve birds with my Lab

[Bob Hardison]

Gee thanks guys. I am considering the purchase of a 2 barrel set.:eek: Bob

[Rich Anderson]

Gee thanks guys. I am considering the purchase of a 2 barrel set.:eek: Bob

Bob buy two guns you'll get more use out of them.

Dig D I fell last year Grouse hunting with a CHE 20, one of only 8 with 26 inch Damascus bbls. I was bruised and banged up a little but thankfully the gun was unscathed.

[Jay Gardner]

A friend has a beautiful graded 20 g M21, two barrel set (28" & 30", I believe). English stock, traditional btfe. It's the ONLY M21 I have handled that didn't feel like a 2x4, it was more like a broomstick. Beautiful gun, but just didn't have the "soul" an old Parker has. M21's are about the only shotgun I don't have an affliction for.

[Fred Verry]

Mills, I couldn't disagree with you more about original two barrel sets. First they offer the owner an immediately available, fitted replacement set of barrels that are "correct" to that gun, should the first set become damaged or destroyed. How many otherwise nice Parker guns have you seen that have been relegated to wall hanger status or cannibalized for parts due to barrel damage, excessive pitting, etc? :crying: Each year there are fewer original configuration shootable Parker Brother guns existent, but each year there seems to be an increase in the number of available orphan receivers for sale. I wish that all Parker guns had originally been built with at least two sets of barrels. If we accept Rich's premise that 95% of the time the second set of barrels wouldn't have seen use, then a lot of these guns would still be in service.

Rich, I always like the idea of buying two guns better than just one. Imagine you could back to 1932 and order a new Parker VH gun. Lets say it is an 0 frame VH 28 with 28 inc barrels. Fast forward to today and if all goes well the gun is worth the appreciated value of one VH 28. If, however, you were to were to fall, let's say last year while grouse hunting and the barrels on the VH 28 were damaged beyond repair, you are left with essentially the value of some 0 frame VH 20 grade assorted extra parts, basically a win or loss situation. On the other hand, suppose you had ordered a second original barrel in the same configuration. Fast forward to today. If all went well you would have the value of a complete VH 28 plus you could sell that second 28 ga. barrel for enough to buy another nice VH 20 or two. If you still suffered that fall, you would still have the extra barrel that would allow you to retain the full value of a complete VH 28 plus an extra monoblock, a win win or win situation. My vote will always be for more original Parker guns with more original Parker barrels and more PGCA members.:bigbye:

[Eric Eis]

Or another answer for the question about two barrel sets are they worthwhile or not is my AHE two barrel set one set of barrels is 20 ga and the other is 28 ga. Now that kind of combination really makes sense.:)

[Rich Anderson]

Or another answer for the question about two barrel sets are they worthwhile or not is my AHE two barrel set one set of barrels is 20 ga and the other is 28 ga. Now that kind of combination really makes sense.:)

If it makes so much sense how come you never shoot it:rotf:
I have taken a bad fall in the Grouse woods only once thankfully and it was with a very nice CHE 20. The premise that one set of barrels might become damaged doesn't justify the need for a second set. If you damaged one so badly that you needed to use the second set you could just go to the second gun instead.

[greg conomos]

I tend to agree that a 2 barrel set is not that great. It's really like owning 1-1/2 guns. Every time I look at the second set of barrels I think "Man, if only I had a receiver and stock I'd have two guns!"

As for the 'damaged barrels' concept, it's not a bad thought but are we really seeing Parkers with damaged barrels that much anyore? I'd rather have a spare buttstock.

[Alfred Greeson]

I never stop learning from you guys. But, I almost had to laugh, you started out comparing a model 21 to a Parker and all of a sudden it took a sharp turn and we are on to a discussion about 2 barrel Parkers, also very informative and interesting. I had to cringe at the thought of falling with a C grade 20 gauge and somewhere along the line we forgot all about the model 21's. If you love Parkers, you just love Parkers, no use wasting time on anything else. I have a VHE 16 on an 0 frame that I love which makes me look like a great shot, but it is the gun! It may not be an AHE but I wouldn't trade it for any model 21. Thanks for all the great info. , you guys are great.

[Kenny Graft]

No surprise here....Parker men prefer Parkers! I am a upland hunter. I like light guns that swing natural and are a tad wispy. Weight coupled with balance must be just right. Not all parkers have this quality but a fair number in all gauges do. This is the quality that the English best gun is known for. I have a couple Parkers that have this quality......GHE-20 28" at 5lbs-15oz and a VH-16 that really has it! The 16 gun sports 26" tubes and comes in at 6lbs-1oz. My mind thinks 28" barrels are best but this gun proves different! I can't miss in the heavy thickets with it. Did I mention that it is a original two barrel set and the 2 marked set is 32" long mod and full!, and yes they get used when hunting roosters, man do they swing nice! Lets talk about the model 21....I would think they make for great duck and target guns. Strong and over built...all the weight is at the center of the gun and here lies the trouble. This makes for a poky gun that does not track and stay with the target. A feller can learn to shoot any gun if he shoots it long enough but will seldom say he can't miss with it! Like Parker guns Winchester built a few that have these qualities of proper balance. Maybe the 6lb 20ga. or the 6lb-6oz 16ga. have it? I own just one model 21, its a 16 gauge and its nice at 6lbs-8oz Its a early built, double trigger, pistol grip, splinter. The tubes are 26" and the gun does not have that special balance I want....close but not just right. Its muzzle end is too light and does not have that follow thou swing like the two Parkers noted above have. As a personal note....I like the look the Parker frame has over the 21. The 21 frame is long, plain and has little going on. They stole the bullet point look from the Fox gun and to own a grade above field that never had the fine engraving the Parkers have. The 21 are cost prohibitive in todays market due to the fact that few were made. So there you have it.....This is why the safe has so many Parkers and only one field grade 21 that I have not used to hunt birds with, why would I when I have such a bird shooting Parker gun that doe's not miss !!!!...(-: Thanks all SXS ohio

[Richard Flanders]

I'm surprised that no one has related the torture test story on I think it was the mod 21. Winchester or someone torture tested every dbl gun on the planet to where they broke but in the end were unable to hurt a mod 21 after some gawdawful amount of rounds. They finally just gave up. Someone must have the stats on that testing.

[Linn Matthews]

I believe that was John Olin's test for strength! The 21 tested never did fail.

[Jay Gardner]

Question: did anyone ever shoot them for long? Just asking because there are a couple of "reputable" dealers on the east coast that have dozens of them listed for sale, all of them in 95%-97% condition. ;-)

[Bobby Cash]

I'm surprised that no one has related the torture test story on I think it was the mod 21. Winchester or someone torture tested every dbl gun on the planet to where they broke but in the end were unable to hurt a mod 21 after some gawdawful amount of rounds. They finally just gave up. Someone must have the stats on that testing.


http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/2low8s/win24246Bmod21_zpsi8sjsa46.jpg

Umm...Hello...:bigbye:
My favorite part of the story relates that well after the failure of all of the other doubles,
Winchester began to disassemble their test gun and continue to fire it with integral parts missing to see if they could produce a failure.

[Bill Murphy]

Many East Coast 21s have been refinished. Model 21 guys know the difference. They're kind of like Purdeys. Real collectors know the difference. The "English guns are expected to be refinished" is a myth. English guns in original high condition sell for much more than refinished ones. Same goes for 21s except that there are more uninformed 21 buyers than English gun buyers.

[Jay Gardner]

Many East Coast 21s have been refinished. Model 21 guys know the difference. They're kind of like Purdeys. Real collectors know the difference.
Oh, I know how the game is played.

[Mike Franzen]

The test you refer to was written up in the DGJ a few years ago. It also featured the Walter Chrysler gun I believe

[Leighton Stallones]

I have both in upland guns and I would select the Parker