Low pressure 12 ga loads

[Alton Anker]

Good evening to all
I just bought my first 12 ga with Damascus barrels can any one help me with a recipe using the powers I have on hand they are 700X ,green dot ,red dot for a one oz load that is safe in this old gun or let me know what is a safe pressure for Damascus guns and I will research it on my own thank you in advance
Alton Anker

[Dean Romig]

What frame size is your Damascus 12 gauge and are the bores and wall thickness safe to shoot?

[Ed Blake]

For load info go directly to the websites of the powder manufacturers. Hodgden and Alliant have all the info you need. And ditto what Dean said. I keep my loads around 6500 psi.

[Alton Anker]

Thank you for the response
The gun that I just bought is a number 2 frame and the gun as well as the barrels are in out standing condition ( sounds like I am proud of my gun I am )
The 6500 is what I was thinking so with that being said I can go from there BUT
If any has a good load they want to share I will be happy to listen
Thanks again I look forward to the day when we can meet
Alton Anker

[Ed Blake]

I use Clay Dot powder, 18.3 grs with 7/8 oz. grey Winchester wad.

[Paul Harm]

I try to keep mine under 7500psi. With the powder shortage today sometimes you have to make do with what you can get and that may mean getting up in the 7500 range. Less would be nice but in the cold weather [ under 10 degrees ] the low, low pressure loads [ say in the 5000 to low 6000 range ] don't work too well - bloopers. Don't know what you're loading for - clay birds or hunting. For CBs, 3/4 or 7/8oz works just fine. For hunting then a bit more - 1 to 1 1/8oz would be better. http://www.claybusterwads.com/ has wads for everything and are a bit cheaper than most. I've used Nitro 100, Solo 1000, American Select, 700 and 800X, PB, and Red Dot - Promo is the same but cheaper. Promo is probably the cheapest of all and you'd use the same data as Red Dot, some claim it's a little dirty. For heavy loads some like Green Dot. And there's always black powder, good for any loads, if you don't mind the extra expense and clean up when you're done. Good luck - let us know what you settle on.

[Bill Jolliff]

Paul,

I've been loading some 12 gauge 0.5 and 0.6 ounce loads for about a year using Alliant Extra Lite powder. Work and sound fine for close in targets.

I sent some samples of these loads to Tom Armbrust for testing and they are all under 5500 psi with the velocities around 1300 fps. I used Win AA and Rem Gun Club hulls, about 14.0 grains of EL powder, Rem and Win primers and CB 0175-12 3/4 ounce pink wads. I used 20 gauge card wads of 0.070" and 0.125" thickness to take up space in the bottom of the wad.

This morning I FedEx'ed Ground two sets of similar 12 gauge loads to Tom for testing: 0.5 ounce using EL and 0.6 ounce using 700X.

Probably be a couple weeks before I get results but will be happy to share that data with you or anyone else that's interested.

Bill

[Alton Anker]

Any chance I could the contact info to send some of my reloads for presure testing
Thank you in advance
Alton

[Bill Jolliff]

Any chance I could the contact info to send some of my reloads for presure testing
Thank you in advance
Alton

Alton,

Tom Armbrust of Ballistic Research can do your shot shell testing. His address is 1108 W. May Ave., McHenry IL 60051.

Five of your loads would be fine. Include all the data, components, etc: hull; primer; powder what kind and how much; wads; shot size lead or steel.

They have to be sent UPS or FedEx Ground. Here is a web site for some of his articles: http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/. email address is there too.

[Alton Anker]

Thank you so much I will contact him and get this project going
Alton

[Paul Harm]

Bill, thanks for the info. Man, you're really getting down there with some light loads - I had to reread your thread a couple of times to get it straight. What are you calling "close in targets" ? The 3/4oz loads I shoot are fine for just about any targets - from what I've read and experienced because of the short shot column they give about one choke tighter pattern. Wonder what yours do. Guess I'm going to have to start playing with the single stage press.

[Bill Jolliff]

Bill, thanks for the info. Man, you're really getting down there with some light loads - I had to reread your thread a couple of times to get it straight. What are you calling "close in targets" ?

Paul,

Close in targets such as Skeet station 8 are real close, station 1 and 2 and station 6 and 7 too. Clays easily to 20 yards.

That's the beauty of shooting a side by side, or O/U too, where you have a selection of chokes from each barrel. In my case I shoot a 12 gauge two trigger early A grade Fox with 28" barrels choked IC in the right barrel and Full in the left barrel. Just the ticket for clays and skeet.

I have never patterned those 0.5 and 0.6 ounce loads. I do know they work fine if I'm on target.

And doing the math, those 0.5 ounces of lead shot use 14 grains of Alliant Extra Lite powder which produces 500 rounds per pound of powder. 0.5 ounces of shot will get you 800 rounds per 25 pound bag of shot. (Don't call me cheap, frugal is a more polite word.)

Nice light recoil that is easy on me and my 108 year old Fox.

I hope to hear from Tom Armbrust soon to get the results on those 0.5 and 0.6 test loads I sent him. I will make it know here in case anyone is interested.

Gonna be shooting some of these loads at the NE S x S Classic next week at HHH in PA.

Tough part in these loads is finding EL powder.

Bill

[Paul Harm]

Sure, let us know, I'm very interested. About all my SxS's are choked under Mod - from skeet to light mod, and they seem to work out to 45/50 yards shooting 3/4oz loads. There's lots of powders you could use. I use American Select, Promo, and 700X at this time.

[Bill Jolliff]

I'll post the test results from Tom Armbrust here when I get them.

[William Davis]

410 and 28g skeet shooters use light shot loads with good results. Ones I know pattern and tweak chokes and loads to get them right. No reason a 12 g Parker can't do the same.

I only had long barrel tight choked guns, using spreaders for the close shots infrequent rounds of Skeet. Bought a 26 inch 12 g VHE choked .007 & .009 at the Spring Southern. Found my loads for tight choked guns did not pattern well in it at skeet distances.

Came up with a 3/4 oz load # 9 shot that patterns beautifully at 21 yards. Low recoil too. 16 grs of Red Dot CB 3/4 oz pink wad. Opens up a new chance to shoot for me, local club, average shooters ,its competitive against modern guns. Not going to win any tournaments shooting it low gun, still a lot of fun.

William

[Daniel Carter]

Mr. Davis you are winning the tournament that really counts

[William Davis]

Well said, fun is what it's about.

On Red Dot low Pressure. Lightest load shown by Alliant is 16.5 RD 7/8 oz shot in a AA hull.

However Clay Buster on the CB 0175-12 Bag has Red Dot charges for 3/4 oz loads as light as 15.2 using AA Hulls.

I have loaded as light as 15.7 RD 3/4 & 7/8 oz with clean burns and no problems.

When you go light and if short range look at your shot size. 3/4 oz of 7 1/2 has 262 pellets. 3/4 oz of # 9 has 439. Key to full patterns with light loads is smaller shot. Skeet being close does not need large pellets. Centrifugal force spinning clay close to the trap throws the bird apart when hit.

Long distance target and clay long way from the trap or a hard target like Rabbits needs larger shot. 7/8 oz 7 1/2 in a tight choked gun will break clays to any reasonable distance. 45-50 yards is not too far for 7/8 oz

William

[Paul Harm]

Bill, I use 3/4oz at all claybird ranges. Of course, I'm shooting for fun, but even though have noticed no difference in my score since going to 3/4oz. I use 8 or 8 1/2's for everything but load a little higher velocity, around 1250 to 1300 fps. I found with the 3/4oz loads at lower velocity and cold weather [ under 10 degrees ] I was getting some bloopers. In one of the SC's rags one of the writers claim he tested 3/4oz loads at skeet ranges and the loads were too tight unless he used a spreader or paper wads. Also said higher velocities helped open them up a bit. He found the shorter shot column deformed the bottom shot so much less that the patterns got tighter. I've never tested my loads, just know they break birds just fine even out to 40/50 yards. If you can find it, Promo is the same as Red Dot only cheaper. I've been told RD has been cleaned a bit more than Promo. You'll just have to check it for weight when reloading - could be different.

[William Davis]

Paul I used Titewad for my light loads, until I ran out and could only find Red Dot. Then had the word in at two gun shops, hold a jug for me out of the next shipment of Red Dot or Titewad. We don't get real cold weather often. Below freezing mid day couple of times a year at most. Could find some bloopers if I did shoot in cold weather.

Two days apart 8 lbs of Titewad 8 Lbs of Red Dot show up. I kept the Red Dot, sold the Titewad to a Parker club member just to keep from having to switch my loads again.

I like the 3/4 loads a lot however for my VH 30 inch which weigh's more prefer the 7/8 7 1/2 loads. One of the Clays courses near me has some very long targets. I shoot with a top level squad, (squad not me) who shoot O/U's, they all use 7/8 7 1/2 because of the targets distance.

Way I keep all of this straight is load 7/8 in Red AA's 3/4 in Grey AA's Green Remington Gun Clubs are all loaded with 1 oz 7 1/2's and a Polywad spreader, and a lighter powder charge, used for Rabbits only.

You could shoot any Clay's or Skeet course with a Parker using B&P Competition One's 7/8 # 8's But tailored to my guns is so much more fun.

William

[Bill Jolliff]

William and Paul,

My sporting clays and skeet shooting is all very casual and no scores are kept. My loads are pretty similar to yours: I shoot 700X 3/4 ounce #8's and 8.5's loads from my full choke left barrel for distance targets and 0.5 or 0.6 Extra Lite 8's and 8.5's from the right IC choked barrel for the closer shots. I've never patterned the loads and have never had a problem with cold weather shooting here in upstate NY.
I'm almost out of EL powder but have about 4 pounds of 700X left. Sure would like to find some EL.
Bill

[Fred Lowe]

Alton,
Congratulations on your new acquisition!
Maybe you would post some pictures?
You have a number of "new to you" guns that should keep you out of trouble.
Hope they don't keep you off the chukar hills this fall!
With that 16 ga you will cut quite a figure!