barrel I.D.

[David Lampman]

Hi guys,
First time poster here. I'm new to Parkers but have been collecting other guns for many years. My father recently passed and I inherited a 1907 Parker G grade on a #2 action in 12 gauge with Vulcan steel barrels. It is very well used on the outside with no case colors left and the checkering on the stock is nearly all worn off. But it is sound and tight with matching numbers.
My first question to you Parker guys (one of many I'm sure) is about the barrels. They measure 25" in length. I'm told they have been cut. If they were it wasn't by buba as they are perfectly perpendicular to the barrel sides and show a radius on the outside. But the bore measures .720 at the choke end. By the charts I have, .720 is the improved cylinder measurement. According to my charts .730 is the inside diameter for 12 ga. So, the question is, are Parker bores of this vintage .720 or are they the standard 12 ga. I.D. of .730. Or do I have a factory 25" with improved chokes? I'm fairly sure they are cut but I thought I'd ask the experts.
TIA
Dave

[Rick Losey]

If you could share the serial number. We can see if it is in the "book" and if so verify the original length

[David Lampman]

I'd be glad to. It's 145848

[Daryl Corona]

It looks as if your gun left the factory with 28" damascus barrels. If the numbers on the barrels match the numbers on the receiver ,then there is a good chance that the gun was sent back to Parker to have new barrels fitted. A lettter on your gun might give you more info. Check the "Research Letter" heading on our home page and it will tell you if info is available. If you join PGCA the letter will only cost $40. Non-member rate is $100. All can be done online. Good luck with your search and welcome David.

David, I just checked and there surviving records for your gun.

[Dean Romig]

Parker Bros. would (always) insert steel 'keels' under the top and bottom ribs, even when shortening a set of barrels at the customer's request. Look for those keels to be visible at the muzzle. If there is only lead solder filling those triangular voids it is a safe bet the work was not done by Parker.

[David Lampman]

Thanks for the replies and great info guys. I'll check to see if there are steel keels inserted today and I'll post back. The serial numbers do match. I guess that the barrels must have been replaced if it came with Damascus barrels. As I said, these barrels are marked Vulcan steel and they fit and lock up perfectly. Does anyone have an answer to the question of bore size?
Dave

[Daryl Corona]

David, your bore diameter should be .730, +/- .001 or so.

[Dean Romig]

Nominal 12 gauge bore diameter is .729".

[David Lampman]

Ok, then is there a explanation for these barrels measuring .720 at the choke end? Which is the I.D. of a improved choke. I mean if the barrels were cut wouldn't the bore measure .730 at the business end? I'm beginning to think that Parker changed these barrels out at sometime because
1) the serial numbers match even though it came with Damascus and now has Vulcan steel barrels.
2) The lock up and fit are perfect.
3) The bore end is square and has radius on the outside edge.
Would Parker have stamped any codes anywhere if they did do the work, if in fact any work was done by them?
Dave

[Rick Losey]

If they were 26 inch barrels, removing one inch would leave some choke

[David Lampman]

By the way, I guess a letter would maybe answer some of my questions but $40 membership and $40 fee for the letter is just more than I can afford. That might not be much money to the high end Parker collector but to me it's a lot of money. So here I am, asking the experts. :-)

[Rick Losey]

Not a problem David. Photos of the muzzles and the barrel markings might help


If the barrels were replaced by Remington/Parker there should be a repair code on the barrel flats. And Remington replacements don't always show up in letters anyway

[Mark Ouellette]

Ok, then is there a explanation for these barrels measuring .720 at the choke end? Which is the I.D. of a improved choke. I mean if the barrels were cut wouldn't the bore measure .730 at the business end?

Hi David,

Parker choke constrictions were often 4" long and something as much as 6" from start to muzzle. Cutting 3" off the subject barrels would likely leave about .010" constriction. If you do not agree then measure a couple hundred bores at every 1/4" and log those measurements into a spreadsheet as I have done.

Since you haven't measured the inside diameter you DO NOT know what the choke constriction is. The bores could have been honed of reamed making the bore diameter larger than ~ .729". The constriction is the difference between the bore diameter and the muzzle diameter which creates a venturi effect. Shot squirts through a constricted muzzle much like water squirts through the end of a garden hose with constriction devise attached.

You might consider attending a SxS shoot in your area or asking if there are any PGCA members who love close enough to you for you to visit them. A member might be able to help you with your gun.

Your gun is an heirloom and thus should have value to you and your family. Enjoy it as part of something long ago passed on to another generation.

Good luck!
Mark

[David Lampman]

Bft,
I have no reason to disagree with you and I believe what you said. Your right about not measuring the bore further down the bore as my inside mics and telescoping gauges don't go that small. That's why I asked what the nominal bore dia. is on 12 ga. Parkers. I don't think it has been reamed as the bore end measures smaller ( .720) than bore size of .730. I will look it over again and see if I can determine how deep the choke constriction goes. I know of no SxS shoots in this area. There may have been some at the Williston shotgun club but the town is trying to stop them because of noise complaints and has issued fines. Don't know how this will turn out but as of now I think they are closed.
Yes it's a family heirloom and will be passed down to my son. That's why I'm here, to learn as much as I can for the stats book I keep on all my guns.
Thanks for your reply. The length of the choked area is good info, thanks again.

[Mark Ouellette]

I will look it over again and see if I can determine how deep the choke constriction goes.

David,

I long cut choke constriction such as found in Parkers is pretty darn hard to determine without a bore gage.

Since you listed your state as Vermont reach out to some of our Vermont and New Hampshire members. A half dozen or more are very active on this forum.

Mark

[Austin J Hawthorne Jr.]

Dave, Since the damascus barrels that your gun came with were replaced with Vulcan steel barrels, it's possible that the Vulcan barrels were ordered at 25 inches, and with IC/IC chokes. Also, the bore diameter became closer to the normal .729 in the early part of the 20th century so there's a good chance your barrels are .729 +/- a little bit.

[wayne goerres]

Post a picture of the muzzles taken from the top rib side. Then someone should be able to tell you if the barrels have been cut.

[David Lampman]

Here's the barrel.

[David Lampman]

Here's the receiver.

[David Lampman]

Is this the right butt plate for a 1907 vintage?

[David Lampman]

Here's one of the whole gun if anyone is interested.
I'm beginning to get Classic Parker Fever! :shock:

[Daryl Corona]

David;
The original s/n you posted earlier, 145848, is different than what I see on your gun. Gun #145858 left the factory with 32" damascus barrels. Looking at the picture of your barrels, they appear to be cut. If you look at the matting at the very end of the rib, past the sight/bead, there should not be any squiggles or matting present. Yours extend to the muzzle. Hope this helps.

[David Lampman]

OOPS! Got the serial# wrong in my serial # post. :rolleyes: Thanks for catching that D Lab.:bowdown:

[Dean Romig]

By the way, I guess a letter would maybe answer some of my questions but $40 membership and $40 fee for the letter is just more than I can afford. That might not be much money to the high end Parker collector but to me it's a lot of money. So here I am, asking the experts. :-)


So, good quality pictures of the barrel flats with the stamps clearly shown as well as pictures of the muzzle showing the keels or lack thereof... and a clear picture of the top rib at the muzzle immediately past the bead. Accurately Measuring the bores and choke constriction must also be done by someone who has the proper tools and know how.
A PGCA research letter may not tell you anything about the Vulcan Steel barrels.

[David Lampman]

Dean,
If You would go to page 2 of this post you will see the pics you asked for.
Dave

[David Lampman]

Ok, does this sound probable?
I have a G grade 1907 hammerless, with a #2 receiver, with matching serial numbers (145858), that originally came with 32" damascus barrels that have been replaced. Because of the matching serial numbers it may have had a barrel change by Parker to Vulcan steel barrels. But at some time later the barrels were cut about an inch (if they were 26") leaving enough choke to measure .720 at the muzzle.
Thoughts?

[Dean Romig]

That's plausible.