10 Gauge Parker

[Kirk Allen]

I have an 1895 (based on serial number) Paker 10 Gauge with Damascus barrels with ejector. G with #3 frame and all the engraving one could ask for. Buttstock has the lab in the center. Barrels are mirror finish with no dents. The bluing is pretty much worn off the barrels but other than that the gun is in perfect condition and very tight.

Any idea of a ball park value? I know somewhere on here probably points me to the right value but I havenet found it yet.

Thanks

[Bill Murphy]

A Grade 2 Damascus ten with ejectors is a rare bird. I will wait for pictures before I volunteer a value. Do you have a PGCA letter which will tell you whether the ejectors were installed on the gun when it was made or returned later for installation? OOPS! Sorry, the ejectors would have been retrofit on an 1895 gun. Get the letter to find out when it was done and for whom.

[Kirk Allen]

I have not sent the letter off yet but will do so in the morning. Here are a few pics of the gun. Not the best pics but should help some.

[Kirk Allen]

I can take some more pics if there is something particular you want to see. I will be looking to sell the gun. I picked it up from an estate sale and was told it was a one owner gun but no way to prove that.

Is it better to have the gun fully restored prior to selling or leave it as is?

Thanks for any and all input.

[E Robert Fabian]

Kirt, there is one on Auction Arms right know for a thousand bucks.

[tom tutwiler]

Need some better pictures, but I'm not sure it's an ejector gun, but I'm wrong more often then I'm right these days. Judging by the screw condition someones been in it more then once for sure. If you want to PM me the complete serial number I'll look it up in the serial number book for you (if it's listed of course). PS. Just looked and there are only 12 numbers listed in the s/n book in the 83600 range. And only 3 of those 12 are 10 gauge and none of those are a grade 2. So what I'm saying it we can't tell you much of anything about the gun.

[Kirk Allen]

Here are some more pics.

[George Lander]

Kirk: Your G Grade Parker SN 83604 appears to be in reasonably good original condition with the exception of a couple buggered screws. I definitely would not have it restored. Complete restoration would cost around $2,000 on a $1,000 gun that would be worth $500 after restoration. With Parkers and Parker Collectors originality is everything. Invest in a letter, clean the gun with light oil and leave it as-is.

Just My Humble Opinion....George

[Steve Huffman]

I think if Mr. Allen wanted his complete SN listed he would not of gone through the trouble of blocking the last part. Most of us could tell the SN by the pictures,But some must be kind of a -------------- About it. Just my humble opinion.

[Jay Gardner]

The bluing is pretty much worn off the barrels but other than that the gun is in perfect condition and very tight.

Kirk,

Damascus barrels were never blued they black and white showing the contrast between the iron and steel that were used to make the barrels. If you search through the threads on this board you will find plenty of pictures of what original and refinished damascus barrels should look like.

It appears to be a nice honest gun. If it were mine I would try to clean-up the receiver and other metal (CAREFULLY so as not to scratch the underlying steel) and do the same with the wood (probably start with Murphy's Oil Soap). Then decide whether or not to spend $300 +/- to have the barrels refinished but only after having someone who knows what they are doing measure the thickness of the barrels to determine whether or not it's safe to shoot. You will definitely need to know that before anyone can put a value on the gun.

JDG

[Kirk Allen]

Kirk: Your G Grade Parker SN xxx appears to be in reasonably good original condition with the exception of a couple buggered screws. I definitely would not have it restored. Complete restoration would cost around $2,000 on a $1,000 gun that would be worth $500 after restoration. With Parkers and Parker Collectors originality is everything. Invest in a letter, clean the gun with light oil and leave it as-is.

Just My Humble Opinion....George

George, do me a favor and pull the serial number out of your post. I guess those experienced figured it out but I rather not display that info like that.

Thanks

[Russ Jackson]

Kirk ,Looks like a nice old G grade ,but looking by your last set of pics. the gun does not have ejectors but extractors ,that lift the shell up out of the chambers and must be plucked out by hand .

[Bruce Day]

Why don't you want the serial number known?


I've always been open about posting the serial numbers of my guns, many of them high grade and valuable guns. I don't figure any of them are stolen, nor do I think that the government has hired web site monitors to write down the serial numbers of old shotguns so that when guns are prohibited, the gun police will come in the middle of the night and demand all my guns by serial number.

Parker shotguns are listed in a Serialization Book or in the Order Books by serial number, so naturally when a person comes here and wants to know characteristics of a gun, some people try to help him by looking up the serial number in the books. All parts of a Parker are stamped with the serial number.

Mr. George Lander is a true southern gentleman and was trying to be helpful since you had come here to the Parker collector's website looking for information about a specific gun.

[Kirk Allen]

Thanks for all the input. I assumed they were ejectors but wasnt positive. I assume ejetors are spring loaded to toss the round out?

Being a 10 gauge grade 2 I was hoping it was worth more than some have suggsted. Might just hold on to it.

[Kirk Allen]

Why don't you want the serial number known?

Because there are lots of people that will CLAIM they had their gun stolen and provide a serial number that they found online then try to take claim to it. You end up having to prove its yours instead of the dirtbags having to prove its theirs. Inocent people made out to be criminals.

[Jay Gardner]

Because there are lots of people that will CLAIM they had their gun stolen and provide a serial number that they found online then try to take claim to it. You end up having to prove its yours instead of the dirtbags having to prove its theirs. Inocent people made out to be criminals.

I think that's an old wives tale and it's just not true. Anyone who's going to make a claim like that is going to have to establish they owned the gun in the first place, i.e. a police report that was filed in the past listing that gun as being stolen. The police aren't going to get involved with any less evidence that a crime has been committed.

[Kirk Allen]

I think that's an old wives tale and it's just not true. Anyone who's going to make a claim like that is going to have to establish they owned the gun in the first place, i.e. a police report that was filed in the past listing that gun as bing stolen. The police aren't going to get involved with any less evidence that a crime has been committed.

I wish that were the case but it is in fact the main reason people dont share the numbers on line. It has happen and if you want to count on the police to be good at their job then you have more faith in the system than I do.

Its easy to file a report that the gun is missing with the claim you dont know how long its been missing for. Its happen and will continue as long as we have crooks amungst us.

The other issue is duplication. Yes its pretty hard to duplicate a Parker but look at the AR industry and you see a lot of people doing builds on their own and some actualy do copy others serial numbers.

[Bruce Day]

If that is true, a person should keep their gun secret, never post pictures,and never have pictures of the gun published.

In many years of fooling about with old guns, I have never heard of what you suggest.

But I suppose its true that people can and do make unprovable and far fetched claims. There are crackpots out there.

[Bill Murphy]

To be the devil's advocate, I had a gun stolen, did not report it properly. Today, after many years, I found that it is in the hands of an innocent third party. I have no feeling whatever that I could begin to recover that gun under any known law or legal procedure.

[Bruce Day]

What! Are you implying that some documentary proof might be required? Bill, its much more fun to wildly speculate.

[Jay Gardner]

I wish that were the case but it is in fact the main reason people don't share the numbers on line. It has happen and if you want to count on the police to be good at their job then you have more faith in the system than I do.

Its easy to file a report that the gun is missing with the claim you don't know how long its been missing for. Its happen and will continue as long as we have crooks amungst us.

The other issue is duplication. Yes its pretty hard to duplicate a Parker but look at the AR industry and you see a lot of people doing builds on their own and some actually do copy others serial numbers.

It may be the main reason that people don't post the serial numbers, that's true, but there is virtually no reason to be fearful. As for filing a false police report, it's a felony, and I know there are a lot of stupid people in the world (and I have represented my fair share) but again, you have to have proof you owned the gun in the first place.

It's a free country so feel free to be as paranoid as you want, but you have very little to fear by posting a serial number on the web.

[Dave Fuller]

I have little insight into the criminal mind. However, if I were going to try the false reporting scheme I would select one of the many high grade, high condition guns posted here. I think I would not go after the well-worn, buggered-up, lower grade ones.

[Kirk Allen]

To be the devil's advocate, I had a gun stolen, did not report it properly. Today, after many years, I found that it is in the hands of an innocent third party. I have no feeling whatever that I could begin to recover that gun under any known law or legal procedure.

Did not report properly? What does that mean? Did you report it at all?

If you can, and you have proof that its yours you can legaly get your gun back. Yes it sucks for the innocent third party but thats the way it goes.

I was going to buy a gun off Gunbroker and I wanted to confirm that the serial numbers was not on a stolen gun list. They guy refused to provide the info. Turns out he was later arrested for selling stolen property. Had I purchased it, I would have been in possession of stolen property and at the least they take it from you when its discovered.

[Kirk Allen]

So, does anyone have an idea of what this gun is worth? Some are saying its rare since its a 10 gauge, others have sent me messages that its not worth $500? I cant find a "G" grade in my Blue Book so not sure where to start to get real numbers.

[Jay Gardner]

Did not report properly? What does that mean? Did you report it at all?

If you can, and you have proof that its yours you can legaly get your gun back. Yes it sucks for the innocent third party but thats the way it goes.

I was going to buy a gun off Gunbroker and I wanted to confirm that the serial numbers was not on a stolen gun list. They guy refused to provide the info. Turns out he was later arrested for selling stolen property. Had I purchased it, I would have been in possession of stolen property and at the least they take it from you when its discovered.

So, I guess the moral of the story is be wary of people who won't post serial numbers? By the way, to be charged with possession of stolen property one has to know of have reason to know the gun was stolen. A charge requires more than just possession.

[Kirk Allen]

I think posting the serial number is quite different than providing it to an inquiring buyer.

Yes, you have to have known the property was stolen to be "charged", and at the least, like I stated they take it from you. At the worst, you have to deal with lots of questions with implicaitons leaning towards you knew. My father went through this very process when he purchased some stuff at a garage sale and it was not pretty becuase the cops basically insisted he knew it was stolen because of the price.

Anyway, any thoughts on the guns value?

[tom tutwiler]

So, does anyone have an idea of what this gun is worth? Some are saying its rare since its a 10 gauge, others have sent me messages that its not worth $500? I cant find a "G" grade in my Blue Book so not sure where to start to get real numbers.


I think without knowing the condition of the bores (and I mean checking for pits/dents/whatever) as well as knowing what the true bore diameters is now, everything is speculation. Also, is the gun tight on face, lever to the right etc. etc. There's just too many variables without having measurements. I'd say take it a smith who has the right tools and check it out and get all those details. Then we might be able to give you an idea. I'll say if it was on one of he auction websites I wouldn't much on it without knowing some details first. This comes from being burnt in the past on those same websites. They made lots and lots of Parkers and condition is everything on the more common guns. PS. Barrels are everything on a Damascus gun. Everything else can be pretty much fixed. Barrels can't. My 2 cents.

[Bill Murphy]

Mr. Allen, the gun is not rare and it is worth more than $500, so both of your advisors are not tuned in to the gun market. People who know the Parker gun market well number more than a covey but fewer than a flock.

[Dave Fuller]

1890's vintage 10's are far from rare, they may somehow be rare in that particular configuration. Barring some uncommon attribute that has not been pointed out here, I'd say the gun is worth less than $1000. But the right answers to the many questions posed above could well prove me wrong.

[Kirk Allen]

I think without knowing the condition of the bores (and I mean checking for pits/dents/whatever) as well as knowing what the true bore diameters is now, everything is speculation. Also, is the gun tight on face, lever to the right etc. etc. There's just too many variables without having measurements. I'd say take it a smith who has the right tools and check it out and get all those details. Then we might be able to give you an idea. I'll say if it was on one of he auction websites I wouldn't much on it without knowing some details first. This comes from being burnt in the past on those same websites. They made lots and lots of Parkers and condition is everything on the more common guns. PS. Barrels are everything on a Damascus gun. Everything else can be pretty much fixed. Barrels can't. My 2 cents.

My local FFL is a gunstock builder and gun smith and as far as the barrels go he said they are the cleanest damascus barrels internaly he has seen. They are mirror finish with no pitting at all and there are no dents anywhere on them. The gun is tight and fully functional! He did not check the bore measurements but I can do that. What are the specs?

I got the gun at an estate sale and the Grandson stated that the gun belonged to his grandfather who baught it new. He claimed his grandfather use to tell him stories about how that gun put food on the table during the depression. I picked it up in Oregon.

[Bruce Day]

Lots of Damascus Grade 2 extractor 10ga guns out there.. A person can check on numerous sales sites to see what others are asking . This gun has condition issues and would need work.

There is good reason to check mirror bores on a 115 year old waterfowler.

[Dave Fuller]

Finding a Parker in Oregon is rare in and of itself. If you're still in Oregon, take it over to Keith Kearcher in Bend, he is widely considered an expert on evaluating these types of barrels.

[tom tutwiler]

Believe on a 10 gauge nominal bore diameter is .775.

[E Robert Fabian]

Believe on a 10 gauge nominal bore diameter is .775.
Yes today, I believe others have posted that they have measured factory bores that ranged way above that do to the tooling of the time and no set standard.

[Russ Jackson]

For what its worth ,here is my two cents worth ,as it has been pointed out on this forum many times ,make sure what you have , by a competent gun smith familiar with Parker shotguns ,list it on Gun Broker ,start at $0.01 and the market will let you know the value very quickly !You can put a reserve and if you get the price that pleases you ,then you sell, if not ,the buyers of such guns will bid to what some one is willing to pay for the gun , I recently sold a nice " used " condition GH grade 12 Ga. with a little bit nicer condition than yours but in 12 Ga. not 10 ,the guys bid it up to around $650.00 and she was gone ,the gentleman that bought the gun e mails me occasionally and is very pleased with the gun and enjoys using it ,and it brought fair market value ! Just , " For What Its Worth ":)

[tom tutwiler]

I also sold a VH 16 Gauge on Gunbroker a few months ago. I also started it at a penny with all the exposed "warts" if you will listed. It sold for $700 as I recall, which was what I had in the gun, counting adding a new pad and having one barrel dent removed. Thus I made nothing and I lost nothing. What I will say is when I purchased the gun it has some "warts" listed and many other I found not listed. I will continue to troll looking for others that I think are a good deal. However, the days of purchasing guns without knowing what some of the particulars are is gone. Also are the days of buying "As Is" unless it truly is a project gun and I don't care what "As Is" is.

Geez sound like Bill Clinton now with Monica L.

[Jay Gardner]

I got the gun at an estate sale and the Grandson stated that the gun belonged to his grandfather who baught it new. He claimed his grandfather use to tell him stories about how that gun put food on the table during the depression. I picked it up in Oregon.

Almost wish you had not shared that. If it were my grandfathers gun it would be priceless to me - no amount of money would induce me to sell it. Keep it, enjoy it and when the time comes pass it along to the next generation.

[George Lander]

Kirk: I have removed the SN from my post per your request. I was merely trying to give you the information that you asked for. All the info posted here, especially that from Mr. Day, should be helpful to you in establishing value for your gun. While not extremely rare it is an interesting old waterfowler and could, probably, tell quite a story if it could talk. Part of that story will be in the PGCA letter when you receive it.

As for Mr. Huffman: "Opinions are like a......s, everybody seems to have one."

Just My Humble Opinion, George

[Bill Murphy]

In that serial number range, your gun could have left the factory with bores at approximately .775 or they could be bored at approximately .795 to .800. Anything much over .800 would be considered a gun that had been cleaned up. If your gunsmith does not have a bore micrometer, he is known in the trade as an average gunsmith, not one to work on or evaluate your or my gun.

[Kirk Allen]

Believe on a 10 gauge nominal bore diameter is .775.

Bore measures at .774

[Kirk Allen]

Almost wish you had not shared that. If it were my grandfathers gun it would be priceless to me - no amount of money would induce me to sell it. Keep it, enjoy it and when the time comes pass it along to the next generation.

"IF" it was my grandfathers I would not have sold it. The info came from the grandson of the owner. He was present at the estate sale.

[Kirk Allen]

Kirk: I have removed the SN from my post per your request. I was merely trying to give you the information that you asked for. All the info posted here, especially that from Mr. Day, should be helpful to you in establishing value for your gun. While not extremely rare it is an interesting old waterfowler and could, probably, tell quite a story if it could talk. Part of that story will be in the PGCA letter when you receive it.

As for Mr. Huffman: "Opinions are like a......s, everybody seems to have one."

Just My Humble Opinion, George

Thanks! I appreciate that. When I get the letter back I will let everyone know where were at.

[Kirk Allen]

Hello Kirk Allen, How did you decide that this PARKER (sn 8360X) side-by-side was a 10 gauge ???? A "G" grade Parker built on a number 3 frame with 6 pound barrel and fore end assembly weight would be a 12 gauge Parker SXS in MOST all cases. If you have a "G" grade Parker built on a number 3 frame, as the posted pictures depict, and it is a 10 gauge Parker SXS then you do have a "rare" Parker because it is mismarked !!! I am pretty sure that your Parker side-by-side that is depicted in the pictures at the beginning of this thread is a 12 gauge Parker. BUT you said/posted that the bores were .774 inches ???? Where EXACTLY did you take this measurement ??? Please give me a phone call and I will try to help you more firmly identify your Parker. A 12 gauge Parker built on a number 3 frame is usually worth more that any 10 gauge grade 2 gun built on a number 3 frame. 12 gauge Parkers built on number 3 frames were the original BO WHOOPPPS !

Good Shooting To You, Jent Mitchell --- cell ph # 703-855-1110

jentpmitchell@msn.com

Jent, the breech rim measures .856 and the outer rim is .930 and the bore at the out end of the barrel measures .774

Barrel length is 32"
Barrel and forend weight is 5.5 lbs on a UPS scale but it only measures in 1/2lb increments so it may be close to 6lbs and just not enough to trip the 1/2lb increment to the next 1/2lb up. I would assume that a 12 gauge would weigh a little more than the 10 gauge, assuming the OD measurement of the barrels were the same?
Total gun weight is 9.5lbs

Going by the Frame size listed on the Technical info page [URL="http://www.parkerguns.org/"] it reflects a frame #3 as a 10 gauge.

I dont recall the guys name that looked at it in Oregan for me but he did state that this particular Parker was very rare and it was based on that that I went ahead and purchased it.

[Bill Murphy]

Jent and Kirk, grade 2 hammerless Parker ten gauges are marked E, EH, G, GH depending on the order of the day. I would assume the ones marked G or GH were stamped before the size of the barrels to be installed was determined. Six pound ten gauge barrels are not unusual.

[Bill Murphy]

Kirk, the frame size chart on the Technical Information page has been updated since it was printed in The Parker Story. Omissions include combinations of frame sizes and gauges found since then. They include 1/2 frame gun with 20 gauge barrels, 000 frame gun with 28 gauge barrels, 2 frame guns with 20 gauge barrels, 3 frame guns with 12 and 20 gauge barrels, and a 6 frame gun with 12 gauge barrels. Other unlisted combinations probably also exist. Your advisor in Oregon is not in touch with the Parker market. A Grade 2 ten gauge is not rare, nor are they particularly valuable unless in very high condition.

[Austin W Hogan]

As Bill said, Dam2 ten gauge guns are not scarce. P2 ( Parker Special steel) ten gauge guns are relatively rare; about 10 listed in Serialization

Best, Austin

[C Roger Giles]

Yesterday, again the noon stage brought one of my favorite publications, The DGJ.

I was too busy last night (FG don't you know) to do any reading so I put off any picture viewing and reading until after lunch today. Ergo I finished reading Austin's Boo Whoop article and what an article it is!

The article is so well writen that even a dummy like me understood the words and also comprehended the pictures of his skillfully crafted tools of examination. I had a flashback to when I read EDM's manuscript on Flying Shooting or is it Shooting Flying as one must eliminate mind and eye wandering like over to the checkered butt stock picture or you will miss something of importance. I think I can also see the results of your association with a certain PHD of strobe and photography from MIT, Emerson?

Austin, it is a real pleasure to have you as a member of PGCA and to have made your accquaintence.

Roger Coger