Checkered Butts on High Grades

[Mark Conrad]

I have run into a few guns over the years where the order states no heel or no butt plate. These guns have turned out to be high grade (D or higher) with checkered butts. I have a BHE 16 where the order states no butt plate. The gun has a checkered butt. I am aware of a AA that states no heel plate. I am not talking about the latter Remington skeet guns which came with a checkered butt. The two guns I have referred to are prior to 1915. I know I have done a couple of letters with this request but I have no way of going back and finding them.

If anyone has an early checkered butt D grade or higher, I would really like to see photos.

Mark

[Dean Romig]

Mark, I have seen one pre-Remington, DH I believe, that I can recall and the checkering pattern is basically the same as the checkered butt on the Remington skeet guts you mention.

[Larry Frey]

Hi Mark,
The PGCA letter on my Pigeon gun (108776) simply states 15" LOP, no butt. When I purchased the gun it did not have the original stock so I have no way of knowing how it left the factory but being such an early gun it's a good bet it was not a checkered butt.

[Austin W Hogan]

I have a couple of early live bird guns tha DuBray specified as "no butt". Both are now restocked, as Larry's. These guns did have length of pull specified on the initial order indicating some kind of a butt finish was required to get the dimension.

Best, Austin

[Larry Frey]

Austin,
The "no butt" reference has always made me curious as to the guns
original configuration. It's hard to believe Parker would send out a high grade gun with an unfinished butt stock. The standard treatment for D and above was the SSBP so if no butt means no SSBP then would that mean a dog’s head butt plate would be attached? It seems when a rubber pad was requested it was usually noted as such. I guess it is just another one of those mysteries that we will never know the answer to.

[Austin W Hogan]

Larry; The DHBP is sometimes noted as the "rubber butt" and the 1899(?) catalog refers to the dhbp as the rubber butt.
I am beginning to take it to mean "no butt plate or pad", but the fact that pull, drop and sometimes pitch and cast are specified for these guns means that the end of the stock had to be finished to those measurements.
I think we can eliminate the idea that the buyer wanted to save the pad fitting surcharge; the dimensions could not be given without quoting pad thickness.

Best, Austin

[Bruce Day]

SN 157,389.

[Bill Murphy]

Rubber butt is the dog's head butt, it is not "no buttplate". In fact, as Doctor Dave Rozier has mentioned, rubber butt is not the correct term for anything Parker Brothers made. The correct term, according to Dave, is "Rub Her Butt".

[Dean Romig]

In Parker Bros. advertising.


.

[Dean Romig]

Bruce, yours may be the one I remembered seeing with the checkered butt.

[George Lander]

Mark: My DHE 20 bore which I purchased from Holt's in England has a straight grip stock with a chequered butt (no SSBP or heel & toe plates) just wood. The gun has English proofs and was finished in 1925 & has 30 inch barrels. If you're interested I'll take some pictures & post them.

Best Regards, George

[Dean Romig]

George, for the benefit of all, please do post some pictures.

Thanks, Dean

[James T. Kucaba]

My 20 ga. Lifter Gun, SN 10165 from the Jim Parker Collection has a no checkering on the grip or forearm and it has a skeleton butt plate with no checkering in the center area ... Is that common among early Parkers, or is it a rarity ?

Jim Kucaba ... AriZOOna Cactus Patch ... Email: JimKucaba@aol.com

[Mark Conrad]

Larry, e mail your serial # to me and I will to look at that order again. Bruce, the DHE 20 is exactly what I am talking about. Here is the order for that gun. Note "no butt plate". When I first started this job of research, I thought this meant nothing on the butt and the customer would put his own pad on the gun. The price of a pad is $4.00 which was really high at the time. The pattern on this D grade is similar to the B grade I have but the B is a little finer.

Bruce, I tried to copy the order book and post it here but it didn't work. I'll send it to you as a scan and you can try posting it here. Thanks

Mark

[Bruce Day]

SN 157,389 Order Book entry.

[Bill Murphy]

William Wagner in Washington, DC ordered many guns with "no butt". I have not run into one of these guns to determine what the deal is. However, I doubt that they were checkered butt guns. I think Wagner just didn't like paying $4.00 for a Silvers pad. I think if we find some of these guns, we will find recoil pads on the south end.

[Mark Conrad]

Larry's AA says no butt. So we have no heel plate, no butt plate and no butt. We need to fine a gun that says no butt to see if it is checkered. Interesting.

Mark

[George Lander]

Mark: The 20 bore DHE that I bought in England has the SN 213884 and is listed in the serialization book as a "T13" with straight stock, ejectors & 30 inch barrels made in 1925. The PGCA letter that I ordered had no further information. The gun is in beautiful original condition with British Proofs. If I can figure out how to post pictures here I will do so.

Best Regards, George

[calvin humburg]

What beautiful writing that person had.

[Mark Conrad]

Mark: The 20 bore DHE that I bought in England has the SN 213884 and is listed in the serialization book as a "T13" with straight stock, ejectors & 30 inch barrels made in 1925. The PGCA letter that I ordered had no further information. The gun is in beautiful original condition with British Proofs. If I can figure out how to post pictures here I will do so.

Best Regards, George

George, your gun was built after the order books end. We only have the stock book whcih does not indicate what is on the butt.

Mark

[Rich Anderson]

This is off topic for which I apologise but as George bought a DHE 20 that was in England and I have a CHE 20 also with British proof marks it got me to wondering how many Parkers have gone across the pond and returned back to the states. I would assume that if the gun was sold new to a European customer it would have to go through their proof house.

Are there any records of new Parkers being shipped overseas?

[Bill Murphy]

Mark has seen way more Parker records than I have, so he may have a different answer. However, I have seen Parker orders to Cuba, Russia, China, Mexico, Canada, Puerto Rico, but none to Western Europe. I assume such orders do exist in the order books.

[Dean Romig]

Parkers from Western Europe may have belonged to American servicemen stationed there after WWII or possibly 'during' depending on their rank.

[Austin W Hogan]

Ron Mc Donald has found eight hammerless Parkers in Australia. We carried stories on two in PP, both had PB as proof marks and a statement with the export papers.
I am thinking hard; I think I remember a contact in France that handled European orders.

Best, Austin

[Bill Murphy]

I will add Denmark and Italy to the list I posted. My most regretted "didn't bid high enough" is on a Parker in Great Britain.

[Austin W Hogan]

Lest we forget the big order for exposed hammer Parkers with Bernard barrels, sold in a large block at half price to Japan, reported by Mark a year ago.

Best, Austin

[Dean Romig]

Sad... likely any of those remaining at the time the Japanese Gov't confiscated all personal weapons ended up at the bottom of the Sea of Japan.

[Dave Suponski]

or melted from a nuclear blast...

[Austin W Hogan]

I spent the winter 1970 - 71 in Hokkaido, the northernmost home island. There was a new W94 in a jewelry store window for the equivalent of $600 US- the Nikon F with micro nikkor that I bought there cost $94 US. Japan has always had huge duties on imported goods; I had to formally register my Omega watch and Leica camera when I entered. When I departed they pulled out the reciepts and checked them off.
The W94 was apparently for the small bear that is native to Hokkaido. One of the people I worked with had a bearhound, that was much like a bassett. These dogs were also used for rabbitt hunting. I saw quite a few parties of 6 - 8 hunters and dogs hunting rabbitts on Sundays.
I doubt if those half price Parkers were for the home island trade; more likely for the islands of the Empire, much like the British and Stoeger sold muzzle loaders and single shots in Africa.

Best, Austin

[Austin W Hogan]

This leather faced SSBP is on a $250 grade lifter of Don Burchard's. The checked butt is on the stock removed from the Buckingham Super Fox.

Best, Austin

[Mark Conrad]

This is off topic for which I apologise but as George bought a DHE 20 that was in England and I have a CHE 20 also with British proof marks it got me to wondering how many Parkers have gone across the pond and returned back to the states. I would assume that if the gun was sold new to a European customer it would have to go through their proof house.

Are there any records of new Parkers being shipped overseas?

I have seen very few Parkers shipped overseas. I suspect someone in Europe would go to the large dealers in the US and the dealer would ship them.

PB had dealers such as Simmons Hardware, Schoverliing, Daly and Gales and E. K. Tryon buying hundreds at a time.

The guns sent to Australia were ordered by the Army if I remember correctly. The order indicated they must show proof marks.

Mark

[Bill Murphy]

That leather faced skeleton butt would certainly simplify the inletting. It would be a great idea for stockmakers.

[Dave Fuller]

I really like the leather insert too. First one I've seen or heard of. Any ideas on what stage of its life that was installed? Would PB have ever done that?

[George Lander]

Still O/T Parker is not the only maker found in the U.K. I have a Fox Sterlingworth ejector gun SN 66765 with British proofs to 3 1/4 tons.

George

[Austin W Hogan]

American Sportsmen contributed more than 100,000 sporting arms for British home defence during 1937 -41. They were inspected by EKeith at Toole Army Depot, Utah before shipment. They may have been reproofed on the other side,

Woulldn't a Parker 20 have been a sweet gun for a WREN on gaurd duty.

Best, Austin

[Rich Anderson]

I was just drooling over on Mr. P's site and see he has a BHE 20 with a checkered butt. What's the chances this is the way it left Meridian or was restocked?

I would love to take her into the Grouse covert's.

[Robert Delk]

A Parker stock just sold at an auction locally with a checkered butt but the stock had been broken and glassed so I could not make out the serial number completely.Must have been a B or higher as it had the fluer-de-lis checkering.Serial was 228--- or 229--- something. I think it could have been properly fixed before they glassed it.Have no idea about the rest of the gun.

[Rich Anderson]

If you are doing a restock and want to put a SSB on it good luck in finding one. I have looked since the begining of a project to restock a CHE 20 which started last June and no luck finding one of the proper size. It is almost completed and I will go with a checkered butt vs a pad. IF I ever come up with a SSB it can be added later.

That BHE 20 is a nice gun but the Grouse are just as dead with the C, D's & V 20's already tucked away.:)

[Robert Delk]

Tracked down the stock I referred to in my earlier post and the owner says it was a originally a padded stock and that it was cut off and checkered by on the butt by a local stockmaker as a test.He seems to know.Just being thorough.