Any of us own CSMC Fox guns or want too?

[Kenny Graft]

I love the old Fox guns but they all have that deep stock drop unless they have been restocked. (Rabbit Guns) I have bought and sold several of them and looked into having a custom made. Its a lot of work to get one properly up-graded, finding the skilled folks to engrave and restock and they are not easy to deal with, lots of variables and long estimated work times. So that said I have ordered a new CSMC Fox XE two barrel set in 16ga. that will be ready this fall or some time in 2016. Now bitten by the CSMC Fox bug I started looking at all the listings on line. Dang I fell in love all over again! Smitten by a little DE-spl 26" 28Ga. factory choked skeet/ic made in 1997 and engraved by Richard Roy. In was in a listing from Steve Barnett on GI (Still Listed as of today).....I made a offer and now its to arrive on the 8th UPS...(-: I know a couple of us own these guns and wanted to here some feedback good or bad.... The only negative I can find is the price!....but they are half the price of the Remington AHE-28 now being made by CSMC SXS ohio....(-:

[Rich Anderson]

I have a Fox by CSM it's an FE 410 and I love the gun. I used it on Quail this past Jan at Morrison Pines. A very nice gun for a lot less money than a VHE Parker.

[Craig Larter]

I have a CSMC XE 20 ga two barrel set that I had built in 1997, Richard Roy engraved.
Mine has been to all over the US, Canada and to Argentina many times. It is my only small bore and my go to upland gun and dove gun. It went back for an adjustment to the front trigger pull and that's it. They are nice guns in my opinion but many Fox collectors don't consider them real Foxes-------yet.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/clarter/DSC_0033.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/clarter/IMG_0003a.jpg

[Dave Noreen]

I love the old Fox guns but they all have that deep stock drop

Simply not true. A lot are, but certainly not "all"!! Most Sterlingworths, which were a "made for stock" gun came with a 2 3/4 to 3-inch drop-at-heel. There are 16 Ansley H. Fox shotguns in my gun room with drop-at-heel of 2 5/8 inch or less.

[Kenny Graft]

Hey COB...A new FE small frame Fox will set you back 30K if not more! you could buy a Parker VH for sure. Could you post some pictures of your FE..(-: CL, that's a nice Fox XE, My gun that's on order will be very similar, mine will be caped pistol grip, AAA American walnut, skeleton, DE checkering and a couple other add ins...Good to here positive reviews. The little 28ga should be at my door some time tomorrow, I hope its a keeper......Grouse and doodles will be in big trouble this fall!!! SXS ohio

[Kenny Graft]

Researcher...what you say is true, but I have been shooting Parker repro's and they are stocked hi....1 3/8 2 3/8 and some are 2 1/8 at the heal. I can shoot 1 1/2 X 2 1/2 but that still seems low to me. I really needed/wanted a Fox with hi stock dimensions to match my repro's best as possible so it will not mess up my first couple shots from shooting under the bird. I own several brands of shotguns and if they are stocked kinda hi like my repro's I shoot them well first time every time. Thanks all SXS ohio

[Mills Morrison]

It would be a good way to own a 410 or 28 gauge Fox, if you had the bucks

[charlie cleveland]

mighty nice guns fellas but i m gona have to stick with a stevens 410...charlie

[Kenny Graft]

I also have a sears stevens 410 26" that has gunned its share of rabbits! Its a early model, has walnut wood, still looks pretty good and shoots right on. I think I paid 200.00 for it years back...(-: SXS ohio

[Brett Souder]

I ordered an XE 16 ga. in 2001 with 29" barrels, IM and IC, 14 3/4" LP, splinter, skeleton steel but with exposition wood and added muzzle engraving and makers name in gold on both sides of the frame. The engraver was Richard Roy. I then sent it out for a Huey Oak and leather fitted case, hunted pheasants with it for 8 years and then sold it. I know who the owner is and hope someday to get it back, this was one of those guns that I should have never let go of. Wish I could order one again at 2001 prices. I never had any issues with mine.

[Bill Murphy]

Rich is right. I wouldn't sell my V Grade Parker for what he paid for his FE.

[Bill Murphy]

Charlie, I had a wonderful Stevens-Montgomery Wards .410. However, someone paid me $950 for it at the Baltimore Show. I just couldn't turn that down. No one was more surprised than I was.

[Mills Morrison]

A Parker 410 just may be something I live without. A 28 gauge is high on the list and that is expensive enough. I have a Superposed with 410 barrels, courtesy of a member on here, and that is enough

[Rich Anderson]

Kenny here are some pics of my Fox. It is a lot of gun for what I paid.

[Phil Yearout]

I love the old Fox guns but they all have that deep stock drop unless they have been restocked...

I have 3 Sterlingworths and an A Grade in the cabinet, all original stocks and all of them have less than 2-3/4" of DAH (most are right around 2-5/8").

[Eric Eis]

Here's a couple of pictures of my FE 20 ga, a lot of gun for the money.

[Eric Eis]

Forgot mine was engraved by Jimmy Dimuck (?). On the barrel rib it is inscribed "Made to Order Commissioner Mike Zagata who I was told was part of the RGS board of directors.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Beautiful guns, don't believe I've ever seen yours before Rich. I put the CSMC Foxes into the same category as Parker Repros--not a put down I admire/would love to have either but cant call them original in my mind. Craig, a fantastic day with 5 grouse, where were you hunting? You don't need to give GPS coordinates, just which state. I have been quite fortunate in taking a 5 bird limit several times( UP). This past year I took a friend with his BHE repro w/ 16 ga Kreigoff barrels out and tried hard all day to get him into birds, and at the end of the day, he had 0, and I had 5 with the little VHE 20 . Some days things just fly your way.

[Craig Larter]

Harold the grouse were shot in northern Maine two years ago. My best memory with the Fox was a limit of Sharptailsl shot over my now deceased lab Tess in ND. The grouse were shot over my lab Lucy when she was just one. Gosh I love to hunt with a great gun and dog.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Given the choice between great dog or great gun, I would take the dog. To have both is the icing on the cake. I too, have been blessed with both.

[Kenny Graft]

COB and Opening Day, Those Fox guns are spectacular! I really like what they are, Special! They give us pride of ownership of wood and metal all working as one functional shotgun. We might sit while taking a break on a long grouse hunt and just look at the engraving,wood and hi quality workmanship. These new Fox guns are not up-grades or knock offs....they are the real deal made by the new owners of the A.H. Fox gun company. This is only new chapter in a long ongoing book of sportsmen, dogs and gun. I am very happy to have a CSMC Fox in my sporting life, it fits well! thanks all...SXS ohio

[Mills Morrison]

I understand the CSMC Foxes have more hand finishing than the Parker Repros. The Repros have essentially no hand finishing, as I understand correctly. The Repros aren't bad guns, though, and I am the proud owner of one

[Rich Anderson]

I don't think comparing a reproduction Parker that cost $2500 new and a CSMC Fox that cost $30,000 new for a similar grade is a fair comparison.

[Eric Eis]

I understand the CSMC Foxes have more hand finishing than the Parker Repros. The Repros have essentially no hand finishing, as I understand correctly. The Repros aren't bad guns, though, and I am the proud owner of one

Mills, that's not a fair comparison, the Repros were machine made, the Foxes are basically hand fitted or made. The stocking is hand done, the fitting is hand done the engraving is totally hand done. Also if you notice Tony does not promote the Fox guns as much as his others ie Model 21 because they cost much more to build due to all the hand work required.

[Greg Baehman]

Which one offers the better value, or isn't that a fair comparison? Ooops, we'd better forget that, as it's probably not a fair question. :duck:

[Mills Morrison]

Mills, that's not a fair comparison, the Repros were machine made, the Foxes are basically hand fitted or made. The stocking is hand done, the fitting is hand done the engraving is totally hand done. Also if you notice Tony does not promote the Fox guns as much as his others ie Model 21 because they cost much more to build due to all the hand work required.

That is what I was trying to say. I understand the CSMC Foxes are made pretty much like they were in the old days

[Eric Eis]

Which one offers the better value, or isn't that a fair comparison? Ooops, we'd better forget that, as it's probably not a fair question. :duck:

No Greg, you have a valid point, in terms of the best bang for the buck, I would choose the Parker Repro. But to buy a gun that has heart and soul I guess I have to go to the CSMC Fox. I look at these guns the same as I look at my original Parkers.

[Rich Anderson]

Greg value is in the eye of the owner. If you bought a DHE repo Parker when they were at the end of the era it was about $2500. Now it might bring $5000 used but not abused. When Tony first brought out the Fox I believe it was a CE grade and it cost $9000 today that gun will cost you close to $20,000 used.
A VHE Parker 410 in excellent condition is $30K+ My Fox Fe bought used but basically unfired was $21K that gun today is $35K plus. So I ask you where's the value???

[Greg Baehman]

Greg value is in the eye of the owner. If you bought a DHE repo Parker when they were at the end of the era it was about $2500. Now it might bring $5000 used but not abused. When Tony first brought out the Fox I believe it was a CE grade and it cost $9000 today that gun will cost you close to $20,000 used.
A VHE Parker 410 in excellent condition is $30K+ My Fox Fe bought used but basically unfired was $21K that gun today is $35K plus. So I ask you where's the value???
Uh, Rich, one may or may not agree with your numbers above, but for the sake of discussion let's use them. If the DHE Repro originally sold for $2500 and is now selling for $5000--that's a 100% increase in value. If the CSMC Fox originally sold for $21,000 and now sells for $35,000--that's an increase of only 60% . . . maybe now you can answer your own question. :whistle:

Having said this, I love CSMC Fox guns as well as original Foxes. Kenny's new Fox is a real beauty, but one of my all-time CSMC favorites Steve Barnett still has listed -- the little 28-ga. 28" DE Special -- what a gun!

Incidently, I have an early CSMC Fox brochure that shows the CE priced at $5600. The price crept up through the years and then jumped $5K in price overnite last year to its now $19,500 starting price.

[Brett Souder]

I have owned a BHE Steel shot special in 12 gauge that I bought from Bedlans and two CSMC foxes. The first one was the 16 gauge XE made to my measurements and it was exactly as I ordered it, the second one was an FE 20 gauge 2 barrel set that was just a great buy. I shot everything with the BHE and it did everything it was supposed to but it just felt like any other Japan produced gun to me like a Winchester 23, Browning BSS, Ithaca SKB etc. neat guns but just missing that hand built quality. Could anyone ever order a Parker reproduction to there own length of pull, cast on/off, barrel length, drop at comb and heel and select the very piece of wood for the stock? I just don't think that they are even comparable but thats just my opinion and wanted to share it.

[Dean Romig]

I don't think comparing a reproduction Parker that cost $2500 new and a CSMC Fox that cost $30,000 new for a similar grade is a fair comparison.


And you certainly can't compare the $2,500 of thirty years ago with an equal dollar value of today and then match it against $30K.

Never the less, The CSMC Fox guns are far superior, in finish only, than the Parker Reproductions. As far as manufacturing and grade of steels used, they are probably about equal... but the Parker Repro has a great deal more machine processes required to manufacture it.

Durability and dependability goes to the CSMC Fox of course.

Let's not forget either, the niche market name of CSMC Fox and the specialized market they advertise and sell to. Mr. Skeuese was trying to make the Parker (reproduction) affordable to the average shooter/hunter. I don't think Tony uses the same marketing model.

[Eric Eis]

And you certainly can't compare the $2,500 of thirty years ago with an equal dollar value of today and then match it against $30K.

Never the less, The CSMC Fox guns are far superior, in finish only, than the Parker Reproductions. As far as manufacturing and grade of steels used, they are probably about equal... but the Parker Repro has a great deal more machine processes required to manufacture it.

Durability and dependability goes to the CSMC Fox of course.

Let's not forget either, the niche market name of CSMC Fox and the specialized market they advertise and sell to. Mr. Skeuese was trying to make the Parker (reproduction) affordable to the average shooter/hunter. I don't think Tony uses the same marketing model.

Dean you are absolutely right and that was what I was trying to say in m last post, for the dollar today, a $4500 Repro is just about the best side by side you can buy today, period. The CSMC Fox is an entirely different animal.

[Mike Koneski]

And you certainly can't compare the $2,500 of thirty years ago with an equal dollar value of today and then match it against $30K.

Never the less, The CSMC Fox guns are far superior, in finish only, than the Parker Reproductions. As far as manufacturing and grade of steels used, they are probably about equal... but the Parker Repro has a great deal more machine processes required to manufacture it.

Durability and dependability goes to the CSMC Fox of course.

Let's not forget either, the niche market name of CSMC Fox and the specialized market they advertise and sell to. Mr. Skeuese was trying to make the Parker (reproduction) affordable to the average shooter/hunter. I don't think Tony uses the same marketing model.


I'd say, just for numbers sake, that CSMC fetch $30K per gun, and suppose the profit is $5K range per gun, his volume can be a heck of a lot lower and still turn the same profit as selling higher volumes of guns for $4500 and making $500/ea. Definitely a different niche, and not a bad business plan. :)

[Dean Romig]

As has been said many times before, the Parker Reproduction by Winchester is a
very much under-appreciated and under-valued gun in today's market. And if the
Repro project had not been done before and was undertaken today they would be
FAR more expensive to manufacture and would retail a lot closer to the prices
commanded by CSMC for their Foxes. And, mark my words - there would be a lot
fewer Repros made than the roughly 10,000 that were.

[Phillip Carr]

I believe CSMC will build you a 28 gauge Parker, and they are getting how much?

[Dean Romig]

Excellent point Phil.

[bill grill]

I had one of his SxS sporting clays guns. Was a great gun, zero issues, regret selling it.:(

[Rich Anderson]

Greg I will agree with you that DE that Steve has is wonderful and I tried to trade into it but it's a consignment gun and Steve couldn't do it. It's just as well as I really don't need a third 28 but that wood is hard to resist.

If Kenny posted pics of his new gun I missed them.

[Bill Murphy]

I certainly don't begrudge Tony's price on the Fox, since he built me an astounding Inverness for a pittance and built a great number of RBLs for similar prices. You decide what your budget is and you make your decision. Anyone who thinks Tony makes too much profit on a Fox CE .410 can buy a .410 RBL for less than half the price. Tony addresses all price points and tries to meet all tastes.

[Kenny Graft]

Her are some pictures that I just took. If you want to see better pictures it is still listed on Guns International, look under heading: Connecticut Shotgun CSMC , then 1/3 of the way down on the first page, Steve has some really good pictures.
This gun was made 1997 Engraved by Richard Roy and has exhibition Turkish walnut with FE checkering and has not been fooled with, shows some very light use and is still 99%...(-: Steve listed chokes as CYL/IC, it left the factory Skeet/IC and it measures .004/.007 chokes are also correct. I plan to take it out in the morning to shoot sporting clays. It does fire and eject properly as I shot it the day it came!, all is well. This is a wonderful example of the Fox guns built by CSMC. SXS ohio

[Kenny Graft]

Gun weight is 5lbs-2.5Oz 26" barrels.

[Rich Anderson]

Congrats on a fine gun Kenny. You have a great gun there.

[Justin Julian]

No one can deny that the CSMC Foxes are finely made and beautiful guns. The question is are they really worth the eye popping price for a new one? Perhaps they are, but I am skeptical. Galazan has only itself to blame for that skepticism. Look at their asking prices for any used gun of any brand that they market on GunBroker. Its laughable---typically about two to three times what the gun is possibly worth, and consistently across all makers. When it comes to pricing credibility, CSMC has shot itself in the foot, IMHO. That's why I am reluctant to conclude that their Foxes are worth the price tag, especially when one considers that a British best in very sound condition can be had for roughly the same price.

[Kenny Graft]

I do not think CSMC is getting rich selling hand made guns. I think they do well on some items like A-10, RBL, mini tommy guns while guns like the Fox make very little profit. The number of Foxes are just to small. The size and scope of his operation carries the Fox production and allows it to happen. Those who want a gun like the custom Fox are lucky to have Tony willing to fool with them! I wonder how long they will offer them?.....few are being made due to the cost. Lou tells me my XE-16 Fox order was sent back to the factory and is in the system to be started...(-: SXS ohio

[Eric Eis]

Kenny, beautiful gun. I too agree that Tony is not making much on the Foxes, when he had the semi trailer / showroom at the Vintagers a third of it was devoted to Model 21's over a third to RBL's and over on one wall sat four beautiful Fox custom guns. He sure was not highlighting them.....:shock: Which tells me he is not making a huge profit on them like the others. They are just plain beautiful guns and I an proud to own my FE.

[Dave Tercek]

Has any one ever asked Tony or Lou if they would make a custom Fox in 12g ?
Dave

[Kenny Graft]

I have been looking for the right Fox in 16ga. for years!!! Even thought about sending one out for full custom work. That turned out to be a huge undertaking and I got cold feet about the unknowns...dollar cost and time involved this and that kinda stuff. I looked a the few used CSMC Fox 16-s and never found one that was just what I wanted. I even called Lou about one I looked at with skeleton plate that Robbin Hollow still has that the pull was too long for me....Lou said it would be a big project and I would do better to order a new gun to my liking. After that conversation I started thinking about it???...man he was right! For just a little more I could do just that and have a gun made to order...sweet. So after long thought I called Lou back and asked about my two trades, told him what I felt was fair trade in values and he said bring em up. Plans were made and the deal is done! Now I started searching the web looking at all the CSMC Fox guns to get a better idea of what I like and did not like. My favorite gun and its twin was the DE-spl that Steve had on GI....I looked at that 28ga and its twin the 410 everyday. I could not take it! I called Steve about the 28ga. and made him a cash and one good trade offer. He agreed with no hesitation.....I was surprised at that!....the gun now has a new home. I am the 2nd owner not counting Steve. I liked the gun so much I called him to ask about its mate the 410...I was so dang lucky....its already SOLD!!! I might have took a loan on my house! SXS ohio

[Rich Anderson]

Steve is a great guy to deal with period! I would have had the CSMC DE 28 IF he could have traded but like I said before it's a consignment gun and I have two Parker 28's.

Ruff Hunter please tell me where I can buy a Boss, Purdey or Holland & Holland small bore for $20K. I have a very nice Holland & Holland Badminton 20GA (also purchased from Steve) that was significantly more than a CSMC Fox.

[Mark Ouellette]

I admit that presently $35,000 is a little rich for me for one gun. Thinking about it 10 years ago I did not own any gun valued at over $4,000. Then, the thought of buying a $10,000 gun wasn’t something that I could comprehend. At least not for me. Today my safe has several exceeding that figure. Those five-figure guns are perhaps the only ones that appreciate in value! I’d be better off selling off most of my guns valued at less than $10k and investing those funds in high dollar guns.

What if today were yesterday? Let us suppose that it was the year 1900, give or take a decade. Most of us mature men would be shooting one or two DH grade Parkers or comparable grades by other makers. Those DH Parkers would have cost us the equivalent of $10,000 in 2015 dollars. Okay, I admit this is a hard comparison because there are so many economic factors to consider. For the sake of this please work with me… : )

At the pigeon or trap club there were a few gentlemen who sported AH grade Parkers which cost three times as much as did our DH. And heck, we could outshoot them DH vs. AH! Those AH shooters didn’t much care because they loved having the top of the line Parker. They let us handle and shoot their AH Parker and we think that maybe when the son has finished college and the daughter is married that maybe we would treat ourselves to an AH Parker. So a few years later we sit down with Arthur W. DuBray and lay down a year’s salary and order a custom made AHE. The AHE is delivered 6-12 months later and we shoot it on nice days for the rest of our life. Our wife may have lost her loveliness long ago, as did we, but the AHE never did. Beauty in our hands gave us pleasure as an old man as holding our lovely fiancée did decades ago.

Forward that scenario to today. We can purchase an AH, AHE, Fox DE, or other 100+ year old highest grade SMALLBORE vintage shotgun for $20,000 to $40,000. If we could find a 20 gauge AHE unfired, it might cost us $50,000.

Now, here is a guy who wants a gun made especially for him. He demands the finest wood, engraving, balance, and workmanship made to his specifications. A bespoke gun comparable to a London best. Okay, maybe a CSMC Fox doesn’t compare to a modern $100,000 London best gun but it is still a heck of a nice custom made for him gun. He orders a CSMC Fox and doesn’t look back.

For me, I do look at CSMC Foxes on the secondary market which sell for $15k and up. Maybe someday I will buy one just for its loveliness. To hold it in my hands as I slowly walk an upland field behind my aging dog. That alone for some reason will bring me pleasure and inspire memories and dreams of my younger days…

[Greg Baehman]

Steve is a great guy to deal with period! I would have had the CSMC DE 28 IF he could have traded but like I said before it's a consignment gun and I have two Parker 28's.
Rich, I have been lusting over that little CSMC Fox for at least 5 or more years. I first saw it on foxriversporting.com when it was listed for thousands less than it is now. It sold. A couple of years later it popped up on Barnett's site for thousands less than when Fox River Sporting had it listed. It sold. Now it shows up again on Barnett's site at ~ $9K more than the last time it was listed a couple of years ago. The best pics of this gun that I've seen are still on the Fox River Sporting site:
http://www.foxriversporting.com/products/ah-fox-de-28ga-csmc

[Mark Ouellette]

Alternatively to my last post one could buy an original AH Fox parts kit from Pumpkin Mountain and PAY a qualified gunsmith to hand fit all the parts, engrave the barrels and action, and finish to a high level. The labor alone would exceed $10k! A 20 gauge kit starts at $4,205. Add to that $700 to $1,000 for high grade English Walnut and the cost will exceed $15k!

[Greg Baehman]

XXX

[Rich Anderson]

I have more into Gunner's Gun than it will ever bring on the secondary market but to me it's priceless. To have a gun commissioned to your specifications is truly one of life's greatest pleasures.

I really haven't looked at shotguns much recently as I have been working on my M70 collection but seeing that Fox once again has me drooling once more. Where there is a will there is a way. If any gun ever screamed home equity loan it's this one IMHO but then again I'm a little creative when it comes to nice small bores:)

[Justin Julian]

Steve is a great guy to deal with period! I would have had the CSMC DE 28 IF he could have traded but like I said before it's a consignment gun and I have two Parker 28's.

Ruff Hunter please tell me where I can buy a Boss, Purdey or Holland & Holland small bore for $20K. I have a very nice Holland & Holland Badminton 20GA (also purchased from Steve) that was significantly more than a CSMC Fox.

In just a few minutes, I found this one comparable example that's in the ball park of the numbers that are being thrown around...with a little more research, I suspect several more could be located.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=476422582

And if one is not firmly wed to the smaller bores, examples like this Purdey best 12 gauge start looking cheap compared to the CSMC Fox.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=477759751

I'm not saying the Fox isn't worth it, just that I'm initially skeptical due to CSMC's gross over-pricing of its inventory of used guns from other makers. Some time ago I checked CSMC's feedback on GB, and from what I could tell, it was all the result of selling accessories. It did not appear, at least at that time, that they had ever actually sold a used gun on that site. When a seller over prices some of its inventory like that, they should expect that people are going to become cautious of the cost of their other products, and that's my only point regarding the CSMC Foxes.

[John Dallas]

Not sure I agree with the "gross overpricing" assessment . They must sell them, otherwise they'd be outta business. You have to turn your inventory.

[Rich Anderson]

Ruff Hunter the H&H is a solid $10K over the cost of the asking price of the 28ga Kenny bought. The Purdey is a 12 so it's less expensive than a small bore.

[Eric Eis]

Ruff Hunter the H&H is a solid $10K over the cost of the asking price of the 28ga Kenny bought. The Purdey is a 12 so it's less expensive than a small bore.

Also you better take a close look at the Purdey barrels (very possible sleeved). I have a couple of English guns and I love them and I also love my Fox FE, they are different animals.

[Bill Murphy]

I'm glad that Greg brought up the fact that the CE Grade CSMC Fox was originally offered at $5650.00 (my recollection) or $5600, his recollection. That is quite an appreciation, more than any other mentioned here for other guns. I saw an AE Grade CSMC Fox offered for $5995.00. I may be mistaken about that price. How much would that sell for today? On clearing my memory, I recall that the AE CSMC 20 gauge was priced at $9995.00 at a time when the CE was selling for quite a bit more. I would have bought the gun from Tony if it were a 28 or .410, but it was a 28" 20 gauge.

[Justin Julian]

Also you better take a close look at the Purdey barrels (very possible sleeved). I have a couple of English guns and I love them and I also love my Fox FE, they are different animals.

There is nothing in the description that discloses sleeved barrels, and I don't see the typical vertical line that results from sleeving. What do you base your suspicion on? It would be unlike Vintage to offer a best gun for sale without disclosing something so material.

[Eric Eis]

There is nothing in the description that discloses sleeved barrels, and I don't see the typical vertical line that results from sleeving. What do you base your suspicion on? It would be unlike Vintage to offer a best gun for sale without disclosing something so material.

Justin, I am not saying it is or not, but look at the date of the gun and I wonder how many fluid steel guns were made and the price even for a 12 ga Purdey is very low (did you call and ask). I know Jay and he prices his guns fairly so again I wonder why the low price. I am not trying to pick a fight here, all I was saying was the Fox gun by CSMC is a very high quality gun with a ton of hand craftsmanship into it, and yes it is expensive but a new Purdey is also very, very expensive. Now I am done with this thread as you seem to want to poison this thread with your feeling about how Tony runs his business and not about the craftsmanship of the Fox guns which is what started this thread.

[Justin Julian]

Eric,
Sorry you feel that way; and no, "poisoning" a thread is never my intent. I was merely responding to a question already being discussed by other posters. Nor do I harbor any ill will toward Tony or how he runs his business. I buy and use CSMC products frequently, and feel that we are fortunate to have a high quality double gun manufacturer in operation in the USA again. I have clearly stated my very limited observation of some of their pricing practices, and will not bother to repeat it again. As some folks apparently can't discuss a slightly opposing point of view without getting their feathers ruffled, I too am done with this thread. Sorry if anything I said somehow offended anyone.

[Bob Jurewicz]

Great back to guns. If this works what should appear is my quartette of CSMC Fox guns. I wanted one of each gauge. I hope Tony doesn't expand his offerings. I'm tapped out.
1. 410 Special
2. 28 FE Special
3. 16 DE Special
4. 20 DE
The 16 DE Special is the CSMC Catalog Gun.
Bob Jurewicz

[Rich Anderson]

Bob that is an excellent set of guns you have.:bowdown: I only have one of Tony's guns but it is a beauty and I have one AH Fox that is an upgraded Sterlingworth that's out getting a straight grip and a new stock. It's a 16 and will be Grouse ready this fall.

[Kenny Graft]

Robert....The 410 that has the setter is sweet! Looks like my Ruby....(-: Please put us in the will for that one! I promise to use it and never sell it.....SXS ohio

[Kenny Graft]

After owning and shooting the new CSMC Fox gun....I find them to be wonderful guns, made exactly like the originals. No one should look down there nose at these guns. Tony took no short cuts, they are flawless and made to perfection! I wish they offered a same quality hand made sterlingworth for about 10K !!! SXS ohio

[Bill Murphy]

I can't forget the CSMC "Early AE" Grade 20 gauge that Tony offered for sale at $9995.00 as I recall. I guess I should have bought it, but it was a 28" gun, not what I wanted to spend ten grand on.

[Rich Anderson]

I love my FE 410.

[Kenny Graft]

Lou from CSMC called yesterday 8-18-15 He called to tell me that my Fox gun was in the white and ready for engraving. We went over all the particulars about the work.....Lou was very excited to tell me that Richard Roy was sitting in his office and asked if I would like Richard to engrave my XE-Special two barrel set and that he could take it with him! I told him....yes with a big smile! Turns out that Richard Roy is who engraved my 28ga. DE-Special that is pictured a few pages back in this thread. My new (special) made to order gun is on schedule and there is good chance that it will make the grouse woods and rooster hides this year! ......Oh HAPPY DAY!!! (-: SXS ohio

[Rich Anderson]

I hope it makes it for this season. Nothing like starting hunting season off with a new shotgun.

[Frank Srebro]

Kenny, that sounds like good progress on your new Fox.

Just by coincidence I was wringing out a Connecticut Fox 20-bore XE Special along with a 16 Nitro Special this morning, doing some practice for the Northern SxS at Rock Mtn. Guns were born about 65 years apart and both "Specials" worked just fine for what they are :) Fox is 26-incher choked IC/Mod, and the Ithaca is 28-inch and Cylinder/Mod. Cell phone pic; quality isn't the best but here ya go. Shell boxes are opposite the guns: Remingtons in the Fox and I'm using up some 2-1/2" RST's in the Nitro which is chambered 2-3/4"

http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b450/silvers897/XE%20Spec_zpsykup8q19.jpg (http://s1044.photobucket.com/user/silvers897/media/XE%20Spec_zpsykup8q19.jpg.html)

[Kenny Graft]

How did you do with the little Fox? I see its a single trigger gun....CSM is proud of their single triggers...$$$$ Good thing I prefer DT guns....(-: Our club has just re-opened after a pipe line was put through. I need to take my DE-special out and run it through some ammo...I have not shot it since it got a new left fire pin. It would not fire Fiocchi ammo reliably. CSM took care of it fast and free...SXS ohio

[Frank Srebro]

The Fox worked just fine mechanically and performance-wise despite switching guns on every other station. I didn't keep score. Yesterday was my first time through the Rock Mtn woodsy course since last winter and that was with another Fox 20 bore on a bitter cold day with a snow squall moving through. The Nitro is one I found recently and wanted to test out with its choke combo of 0 & 2 = cylinder and modified. Its cylinder choke does measure a few points of constriction. The Ithaca worked well too.

[Craig Larter]

Kenny: Richard Roy engraved my XE
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/clarter/DSC_0007.jpg

[Rich Anderson]

When a long barreled Fox 20 comes my way it will undoubtly be a CSM gun.

[Mike Koneski]

I'm with COB. Instead of "settling" for a hard to find and probably overpriced 30" or 32" 20g Fox, I too will most likely get a CSMC Fox in the configuration I'd be looking for. Factory warranty and service if needed (thanks to Cold Spring for pointing this out to me) is always a plus. Until then that li'l 20g SW will suffice. :-)

[Mills Morrison]

I have a 28" Fox Sterlingworth 20 gauge that will do anything a 30" or 32" will do. Full/Mod chokes and deadly on Wood Ducks.

[Greg Baehman]

I have a 28" Fox Sterlingworth 20 gauge that will do anything a 30" or 32" will do. Full/Mod chokes and deadly on Wood Ducks.

But, will it bring as much $$$$? :whistle:

[Mills Morrison]

Fortunately no, since I was recently a buyer for it.

[Kenny Graft]

CL....Just got home from camp and saw your post. Your RR engraved Fox is a dandy! My gun will look about the same as yours I think. I got the call on 9-17-15 that my gun was back from the engraver and will be shipped in about two weeks...(-: Richard Roy had my gun about 30 days to do the engraving. Its getting the metal finished now. It should be here in plenty of time for my Wisconsin grouse hunt. I am very excited about the Fox and also my first trip to Wisconsin. Ruby is in her prime at 4 years and 7 months. Gordons mature slowly and she finally is acting like a grown up! She is a good hunter and listens well. I hope to get her into many grouse, woodcocks she really needs it about now. I plan to take the new Fox 16, my little VH-16 O frame and ??? Soon as the Fox arrives I will post some pictures. Thanks all SXS Ohio....(-: 26 days till Wisconsin.......

[Eric Eis]

CL....Just got home from camp and saw your post. Your RR engraved Fox is a dandy! My gun will look about the same as yours I think. I got the call on 9-17-15 that my gun was back from the engraver and will be shipped in about two weeks...(-: Richard Roy had my gun about 30 days to do the engraving. Its getting the metal finished now. It should be here in plenty of time for my Wisconsin grouse hunt. I am very excited about the Fox and also my first trip to Wisconsin. Ruby is in her prime at 4 years and 7 months. Gordons mature slowly and she finally is acting like a grown up! She is a good hunter and listens well. I hope to get her into many grouse, woodcocks she really needs it about now. I plan to take the new Fox 16, my little VH-16 O frame and ??? Soon as the Fox arrives I will post some pictures. Thanks all SXS Ohio....(-: 26 days till Wisconsin.......

Kenny can't wait to see pics of the gun. What a great way to start the grouse season..... Good Luck to you

[Chuck Heald]

Pretty guns. Do any of those 410 guns see high volume shooting?

[Kenny Graft]

O.K. Lou called last Friday...and my gun is finished and will ship on this Monday the 12th. It will get her in the nick of time to take on my first Wisconsin grouse hunt with Ruby...(-: It should arrive this Wednesday fed-X and I can shoot it Thursday morning at my club on our world class clays course. Yip-eee Lou and CSMC really out-did themselves....only 8 months start to finish!!!!! SXS ohio

[Dean Romig]

Pictures.......!





.

[Bob Jurewicz]

OK Kenny. You have had enough time with your new gun! Now, a report and some pics!!!!!
Bob Jurewicz

[Kenny Graft]

Sad to say it been delayed in rust blue dept. and will not make it in time for my Wisconsin hunt but will be here after I get back. Lou was working on rust blue the barrels and just could not get it done in time. Carrol the office lady jumped the gun on the delivery date truth be known. At any rate its being finished and will be here soon. Then it will go to potter county P.A. for a grouse hunt.....SXS ohio

[Kenny Graft]

The XE-spl. is here!....(-: I started a new thread with the pictures. It is everything I hoped for plus...Lou sure did pick a nice stick of American walnut for this project. No up-charge for the wood. I could not have gotten a better stick of wood for this gun and the money I saved by not getting Turkish wood up-grade paid for the skeleton but plate option of 900.00 Lou really did me right on the wood! Richard Roy spent some extra time on my gun as well to do what I asked and CSMC did not charge any extra for that work either. The gun was truly made for me and I am very satisfied and happy with its outcome! I give CSMC, Lou and all the men who made it happen a big AAAAAA+++++ ten stars My new gun gets to go bird hunting today after work...with me and Ruby... thanks all SXS Ohio

[Mike Koneski]

I guess that answers the question being bandied about whether CSMC will still make Fox guns on demand!! Good to know! :clap: That's especially nice that they did the grip per your Parker gun specs.

[Kenny Graft]

I am happy I went in person to order my gun. I would not have picked up on the grip radius unless I had finished guns to see. The Fox seemed different when shouldering them. Then I could see the difference and did not like it compared to the Parker guns. That's when I told the stock maker and he said he could radius it like my Parker repro with no trouble...(-: Made to order!

[Mike Koneski]

Now THAT'S service!!