Horse trading for 20 ga and got non Parker cases

[John Gardner]

Had a little fun recently.
Started off picking up a Gregson 16 ga. w/original case, a nice light English gun possibly made for Gregson by Westely Richards. Got a "Gtd. by John Rigby", (Rigby warrants the gun but didn't make it), hammer gun thrown in.

Flipped the Gregson and a VH 12 for a nice VH 20 (1920) which unfortunately doesn't letter, and then traded a slightly mucked with DHE 12 I picked up from auction for a cute PH 20 (1902), 26" mirror bores, that does letter. I'll put up some pics in the Parker section on these.

The gentlemen I was trading for the Parker 20's with also had these non Parker cases. The first is a Holland and Holland which on reflection looks like it was for an 8 bore rifle, not shotgun, as I first thought. Any insight appreciated.

The second is, I believe, a 2 gun hammer case attributed to a H.J. Kennard who's family was into politics of the day and a member of the Junior Carlton Club in the UK. A now defunct gentlemen's club for Conservative party members and guests. No makers label in the case but possibly E.M.Rieley (?) Ignore the black belt it goes away soon. The carry handle is opposite the latch on the two gun case which I thought odd. Again I would appreciate any info.

No cash changed hands for the cases, the Holland case took a low grade Darne 20 ga. and the other a beater (if there is such a thing) Trojan 12 and the Rigby. I am not a case guy but liked these and any input to value would be appreciated.

I think I did OK on the Holland case but not so sure on the 2 gun case. Pictures below. The Holland is 44 x 9 1/2 x 4 so fairly big.

Apologize if wrong column to talk about cases. I haven't gone unto other sights yet as 1) I know there are some pretty skilled case guys here in PGCA and 2) I regard and trust the feedback from the PGCA members.

[George M. Purtill]

very nice

[charlie cleveland]

very nice...bet that old 8 bore case could tell some tales...you gona have to get a 8 bore to go with that case now....ha charlie

[John Gardner]

Hi Charlie, got a line on an 8 bore to match the case? If you do please don't tell me sir...my wallet is too thin at the moment!

[John Campbell]

The two-gun pair case is for hammer guns. And looks to be in decent condition for its age. The odd handle placement is why I am circumspect about these cases. Security straps or no, I can never feel at ease with them.

The Holland case is also nice, and appears to be modified or possibly made for a hammer gun. And indeed for an 8-bore. It might do for a 10, however.

In either case (no pun intended) do as little to restore these as possible. Their cachet rests in their age. A good case maker can help enhance them without destroying their patina. Or PM me for some basic steps.

Nice finds!

[Eldon Goddard]

John it is good to hear from you. That H&H case is interesting. Just imagine the monster that was once in there. I want to see that PH 20 that sound like a nice one.

[John Gardner]

Hi Eldon, likewise big guy. I was going to try to track down the date of manufacture if I could on the HH gun that it was built for. Enjoying your discussion on collecting doubles BTW. I think as long as the guns keep shooting people will be interested. I have always liked SxS guns, just took me awhile to get savvy to Parkers. This forum I believe is an outstanding mechanism to drive interest. You ever get up this way coffee on me.

[George M. Purtill]

What a shame that nice cases get separated from their guns!!! I just don't understand how or why.

[John Campbell]

What a shame that nice cases get separated from their guns!!! I just don't understand how or why.

The reason can be summed up in one word: Money.

A pair of guns brings more money if sold separately. The separate case brings more.

An individual gun in its correct case brings good money without the case. The case sold separately brings more.

Blame greed. Or dealers. Or both.

[Dean Romig]

A DHE 16 with straight grip was for sale about ten years ago along with letters back and forth between the owner and Dwight D. Eisenhower, a picture of Ike with the gun on a grouse hunt in NH, and Peter Johnson's book inscribed by Ike to the owner. I missed it by minutes.... $3,300... I asked the seller who bought it and he told me he would put the buyer in touch with me. The guy called the next day and told me he flipped it to Riley's gun shop in Hooksett, NH. I immediately drove to Riley's, examined the gun and asked about the letters, picture and book.... I was told by them that the guy who brought the gun in didn't bring anything else with it... The gun was for sale for $7K

Greed (and ignorance in this case) indeed!

[John Campbell]

Egad! Ike's Parker!!

I'd have mortgaged my house to get it... then tracked down those letters and book. The shop had to have records on the seller. All of it belongs in his Presidential Library some day!

[Bill Murphy]

Pairs cases seldom have guns in them that match the case. I was lucky when I finally found a second tier British sidelock with crossover stock. I was doubly lucky to find that it was actually a high condition pair in the original trunk case. It happens.

[John Gardner]

My sincere appreciation and respect to John C. for great instructions and guidance for cleaning and preserving these cases and for researching the 8 bore case and letting me know the Holland and Holland gun, that this case was made for, was made in 1884.

The good folks at Holland and Holland were kind enough to confirm this and indeed according to their books the gun was finished on October 30th, 1884 for a Mr. Dumbleton.

Not so much information as Chuck provides us on our Parkers but you gotta love a Company that maintains their records. Thanks again John.