Please advise on G 12 gauge

[Patrick Hanna]

Hello, Friends,
Today my cousin brought #78254 to my house for me to see. It belongs to his friend, who recently bought it from an antique store in Kansas. It has a few problems, but I doubt that any of them are insurmountable. The owner would like to make a shooter out of it. My cousin asked me to photograph it, post it here, and seek your feedback.

It is a G grade, hammerless, extractor gun on a size 2 frame. I'm not equipped to measure chambers, bores and chokes. We did fit a 12 gauge shell into one chamber. Top rib is stamped "Damascus Steel". The gun has a thumb safety. It has a capped pistol grip and rubber butt plate with dog, well-worn, but not broken. Wood is not fancy. I forgot to measure the barrel length, but have asked my cousin to send that info to me.

It has some bore pitting which will need to be evaluated by someone who is equipped to measure the barrel walls and pit depth. It is slightly off face and the top rib has come loose at the muzzles, but is not bent. It also has two shallow dents in the left barrel and some long scratches on the left side of the wrist and comb. I speculate this damage all happened in the same fall. The barrel finish is worn, as we would expect from a well-used gun. No traces of case hardening colors remain on the outside of the receiver. Strong colors remain on the metal inside the fore arm. Engraving is present on all surfaces, but will not show well in my photos.

My first thoughts are: Evaluate bore condition and wall thickness. Evaluate dents. If those problems are not too serious, have it brought on face, remove dents, re-solder the top rib, have it professionally cleaned and start enjoying it. Consider barrel re-blacking at same time as rib repair. Consider repair to deep stock scratches now or in future--in that order.

I am not sure what the owner paid for the piece, but I know he can have the various repairs estimated in advance. Only he will know how much he is willing to invest beyond his purchase price.

I'd be very interested to know what you would do if you owned this gun.

[Patrick Hanna]

Barrel dents are small and shallow. They are circled in these photos. I didn't see them in the bore, but the bore was not reflecting much light.

[Patrick Hanna]

Engraving is nice, but not real fancy. It won't show well in my photos, but is very evident to the eye. It features a bobwhite quail scene on the right side, Canada geese in flight on the left side, and what I believe are California quail on the floor plate. IF I'd had a screw driver that fit perfectly, I might have tried to change the positions of those floor plate screws to see if they'd both go into proper alignment.

Pistol grip photo also shows the deep gouge along the left side of the wrist and the comb.

[Patrick Hanna]

My cousin just emailed to tell me that he measured the barrels at 27 & 1/8, which seems odd to me. Some choke is visible in each muzzle, but I don't have to tools to measure it. The chokes are different, as we would expect in a field gun. This is clearly obvious to the eye when viewing the muzzles.

[Steve Huffman]

The serial number book has it as a D2 with 28 " barrels capped stock your picture of the muzzle looks to be as if they may of been cut .

[Brian Dudley]

I cannot see enough about the stock on the gun to make an informed decision, but I suspect it may be a replacement. The look of the comb and grip area are suspect to me. But... it has at least been sanded to the point of the checkering being gone. You also have a second screw through the guard that should not be there. It is beyond me why people do that. It is too often seen.

Regarding the barrels, They are cut. The odd length combined with the fact that the rib matting runs off the end tell me so. If he wants to shoot it, the wall thickness should be checked out first before anything is done. If that is good, then everything else is fixable. But... the repairs needed would likely run you close to $1,000 if you want to have a working budget. The ribs should be stripped and completely relayed, which would require refinishing. All that and the bores will still have pitting. So, up to you if it is worth wile.

Either way, it would be a labor of love because to fix the barrels alone would be more than the gun is fairly worth in its condition as far as cosmetics go.

[Patrick Hanna]

Thanks for the input so far. I guessed that the factory length on those barrels was 28", because if they had been cut back from 30" I doubt there would have been any visible trace of the chokes left in the muzzles. It didn't occur to me to look at the rib matting running off the muzzle end. I am pretty ignorant about these things and that's why I keep coming back here. Thank you, Brian!

It's not my shotgun, but I am collecting information and opinions for the owner. Any opinions about what a gun of this age and condition ought to be worth if in shooting condition? I ask because I have a strong hunch the owner got an extremely sweet deal when he purchased it.

As I understand it, he purchased this shotgun, a fine pre- Civil War half stocked percussion target rifle and a .31-caliber Colt pocket revolver (percussion) for one lump sum. I think a case could be made that he doesn't have much invested in this Parker. It might be worth it to him to have it brought into shooting condition...if not cosmetically perfect condition. He will have to make that decision, but I'm sure he would appreciate any input our member can provide.

[Brian Dudley]

It is not hard to find shootable GH grade 12g guns for less than $1,000. And those would be guns without cut barrels and with original unaltered wood.

[Patrick Hanna]

Brian, please explain what you mean by "a second screw through the guard that should not be there". I'm not arguing with you, I just don't understand what you mean, and I can't see any obvious second screw in the photos. Many thanks in advance.

[Brian Dudley]

The screw in the guard tang about a half inch from the end of the tang should not be there.

[wayne goerres]

I hate to say anything negative about your friends gun but it looks like he bought himself a parts gun. The fact that the barrels are cut and the cost of relaying the rib don't leave many options. Putting the gun back on face and redoing the Damascus finish alone will cost at least 500.00 to 800.00 conservatively.

[Patrick Hanna]

Brian, thanks for explaining about the screw. It wasn't obvious to me, but I am pretty ignorant about these things and that's why I'm here. I appreciate the explanation.

Wayne, you aren't saying anything negative. The gun is what it is. I'm here to collect honest feedback and I appreciate you guys very much. I don't think the owner has much in the gun at all (see my post above about the other two guns he bought in the package--I think the Colt was the most valuable by far). However, he is the only one who can make the final decision about where to go next.

Thanks to everyone. If anyone else cares to post an opinion, please do. I've forwarded a link to our thread to the gun's owner. I'm sure he will be interested in all feedback.

Patrick

[Jerry Harlow]

check wall thickness OK go to step 2
check pits, not deep go to step 3
top rib at end not too loose, only a little loose, Brownell's low temp solder in voids, go to step 4
put on face and remove dents, go to step 5
screws in correct holes, go to step 6
shoot it with RST and enjoy it for a $200 additional investment, go to step 7

save money for the refinish/repair of a better gun. been there before.

[Patrick Hanna]

Hey, J.A.,
The gun is not mine, but I've been thinking along your lines. I realize we are writing on a collector forum, but I'm not a collector, per se. If I had bought this gun with hopes of making it a shooter, I would not be thinking of collector value. I'd be thinking of how much fun and use I could get out of it.

Who, among us, ever buys a new car with the thought of what it will be worth when we are through with it? We don't think that way about cars. We use the heck out of the car and then we go out and repeat the process. Technically, we lose money every time we drive a car off the lot, but we don't care. We keep buying them and using the heck out of them.

If this gun were mine, and if I'd bought it for a few hundred dollalrs and really wanted to make it a shooter, and if I found it would be a safe shooter, I wouldn't balk at $1,000 or more. I might not balk at further investments for upgrades as time went on. I'd get my investment out of the pleasure of USING the nice old gun. If I determined that it could be a safe shooter, I'd invest in it as I pleased and then, I assure you, I would absolutely use the livin' heck out of it for as long as I could walk behind a dog! I'm not kidding!

But it's not my gun. At least I had the fun of looking at it and exchanging thoughts with all of you gracious members today.

One of these days, I'll come back here with a Parker that IS my gun. In the meantime, please keep chiming in, as you wish, about my friend's antique store purchase.

[Rick Losey]

Patrick

You'll find as many if not more shooters here than high end collectors

And it would not take much searching to find several posts where a "parts gun" has been resurrected without hope of recovering the investment

I wish your friend luck on his project

[Bill Murphy]

I don't see a lot wrong with this gun once the rib end problem is taken care of.