Missing Parker records.

[Brian Dudley]

Back at the 2013 annual meeting it was said that the PGCA was in the process of acquiring some of the missing factory records. Can anyone in the know comment on this? Did it happen, is it happening?

[Chuck Bishop]

I don't know.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Brian, I have not heard any more about it, There was talk about trying to determine the whereabouts of some of the books, Actually those that we know about could be copied if the owner was willing, and I believe only a few exist. I can only think of a few reasons they would not want them copied, but then thats just me thinking out loud, would be nice to have them, a lot of us have guns with no way of getting info on them, Gary

[Jean Swanson]

I was not at the annual meeting and am puzzled as to who would know the whereabouts of ALL the missing records. I have been researching this issue for years and I have no idea where or who has the not copied records or if they even exist !!

Allan

[Brian Dudley]

Allen,
I am pretty sure you were there. You gave a talk on collecting of Parker guns. It was 2 years ago in RI.

I cannot remember specifically who made that statement about the records. But it was at the mic to the whole group. It was in reference to some known records. Not all of them.

[Jean Swanson]

Brian, My apology . If I had looked at the date of 2013 I would have remembered being there. However, I do not remember saying anything about records . I missed last years meeting.

[Chris Travinski]

I was under the impression that Larry DelGrego had some of the missing records. I can't personally confirm or deny.

[Chuck Bishop]

Just a little clarification on the Order Books. There are actually two distinct types of Order Books. The type we use for research letters are 8 1/2" x 14". These Order Books have a S/N for each order. These range from 1877 to 1919.

The other type of Order Books are older and are 8 1/2" x 11. We have a copy of this older type of Order Book and dates to 1871. It's labeled Order Book #5. That would mean there was a #1 through #4 missing and possibly more up to 1876 when the other type was started. It is of no use in doing a research letter on because it does not contain the S/N on the orders. Interesting to read but that's about it.

I have been told there are private individuals that have some of these books but I don't know what type they have. Who knows, maybe there are some missing Stock Books out there too.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Chuck, Would they make reference to Gauge like 20 gauge? Gary

[Brian Dudley]

From what was said at the meeting, it was referenced that the records trying to be acquired were covering a large range of numbers from the teens or 20s. And I think I recall one of the invincibles being mentioned.
This is just what i recall.

Come on. Was I the only one hearing this that was there? Can I get a witness!? :)

[Chuck Bishop]

Gary, yes the old style Order Book lists gauge, barrel steel, length, and price and any extra's. Paging through, I see 10,11,and 12 gauge guns. I don't know when Parker made their first 20 gauge gun.

[Dean Romig]

Chuck, from what I hear it was a four-digit serial number.

[Larry Frey]

Come on. Was I the only one hearing this that was there? Can I get a witness!? :)

Brian,
I was there and although I am often distracted with other duties I do not recall any such conversation from the podium.

[tom leshinsky]

That's what I like about this organization the privileged few are very secretive. "I refuse to answer on the grounds it may incriminate me!" From what? Some what like the mafia. maybe it should be called that.
Hey, it's a simple question are you working on it?????

[Patrick Butler]

I was under the impression that Larry DelGrego had some of the missing records. I can't personally confirm or deny.

I can remember watching a short news feature that was posted here regarding Larry DelGrego's shop and, as I remember, there was a picture in that report of some Parker record books.

[James L. Martin]

Brian, Glad you brought this up, the missing books seems like an X- File case. I know every once in awhile I hear about someone who heard something about them and the same names seem to pop up, Larry Delgrego and Tony Galazan . If they do exist I wish we could at least copy them.

[Robin Lewis]

That's what I like about this organization the privileged few are very secretive. "I refuse to answer on the grounds it may incriminate me!" From what? Some what like the mafia. maybe it should be called that.
Hey, it's a simple question are you working on it?????

Secretive? That isn't my impression, this forum and the people that are on it seem to be quite open and generous with what they know. Ask a question and it gets honest attention. In this case, the question of "are you working on it" may have been lost in the discussion of if they exist. Based on the discussion on existence it would seem, reading between the lines, that no, they are not working on it.:duck:

[Scott Siegmund]

I was under the impression that Larry DelGrego had some of the missing records. I can't personally confirm or deny.
I spoke with Larry today regarding my Remington assembled gun SN 242242, he said their record keeping was horrible in that time period, and I said: so it's a black hole? He responded with: that's about it. :(

[Patrick Butler]

I searched this site and found a link posted to a CNN report on DelGrego.

At the very end of the report they show you two large record books "of orders.":

Parker and DelGrego on CNN
I was surprised to see this video pop up on the CNN business page. I was more surprised to see it had not yet been posted here. If it has already - my apologies.

http://money.cnn.com/video/smallbusi...ex.html?iid=GM

[Dean Romig]

Nothing on that link about DelGrego... that I could see.

[Bruce Day]

Persons interested in this topic might want to review numerous previous threads on this matter. Nothing has changed and obtaining the known missing books continues to be a goal.

Can't buy something that is not for viewing and not for sale.

With respect to end of production 242 guns, there are records other than the IBM cards for some. Notably there are records of guns missing major parts, like barrels, stocks, etc . Some people decide its better not to know. Sometimes holes are black because the light has been turned off.

[Patrick Butler]

Nothing on that link about DelGrego... that I could see.

Sorry Dean. The story was broadcast on April 14, 2013. This link should work:

http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/15/smallbusiness/guns-jobs-gunsmith/index.html

[tom leshinsky]

It looks like the Parker record books doesn't it. There was also a post awhile back that someone ask Delgrego if they would release the records and they said NO.
Now does anyone remember that?

[Dean Romig]

Thank you Patrick.

[James L. Martin]

Yes I do remember some saying that Delgrego had some record books and would not release them

[John Dallas]

Would they sell them?

[Mills Morrison]

Everything is for sale at a price

[Rick Losey]

Everything is for sale at a price


all generalizations are false

[Chuck Bishop]

I agree, the DelGrego books look like the legal size books our copies were made from. Too bad I can't read the book # or read a serial number to see if perhaps we have a copy of that book.

I stay out of contacting anybody about missing records but you can believe that many from the PGCA have made repeated attempts to have those missing books copied. If the owners won't allow it, what is the PGCA supposed to do, keep hounding them? You have to tread lightly and not piss them off in hopes that they will eventually see the light.

[Chuck Bishop]

That's what I like about this organization the privileged few are very secretive. "I refuse to answer on the grounds it may incriminate me!" From what? Some what like the mafia. maybe it should be called that.
Hey, it's a simple question are you working on it?????

Mr. Leshinsky, I think your out of line with that remark!

[Craig Larter]

Brian: Maybe we were both drinking the same wine but I clearly remember the same comment at the meeting. Craig

[John Dunkle]

Mr. Leshinsky, I think your out of line with that remark!

Having watched this thread over the past few hours - I'm pretty sure the OPs question was answered - 16 ways to Sunday.

So, before it get's ugly - I'm closing it.

If anyone has an issue with my decision - feel free to PM me - I'm always "all ears" ;)

Best to all,

John