Parker VH 242242

[Scott Siegmund]

I originally posted some information on this gun in the New Members section and in another members thread, there has been some recent discussion so I felt it would be best to start it's own thread.

I have a Parker VH 12 ga that's been in the family since the early '70's. The Parker was a Christmas gift to my father who passed away in 2001. I've been the caretaker of the gun for about 30 years.

Overall the gun appears to be in decent condition. The wood is original though the rear 'wings' of the beavertail have a fracture line on one side and a repaired fracture line and shaped filler on the other side. Based on the beavertail design I'm guessing that is a somewhat common issue?

A previous owner installed a custom adjustable pad though I'm not certain if the length of pull was altered, LOP from trigger face to the end the stock, not the pad is 13-1/8".

The right barrel ejector appears to have an issue as the 'strikers' in forearm do not align evenly when cocked.

Here's a few pictures:

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[Scott Siegmund]

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-DDZDVDV/0/XL/i-DDZDVDV-XL.jpg

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This forum appears to have a lot of very knowledgeable Parker enthusiast and I would really like to learn more about this gun that's quite special to myself and appears to be a decent example of an unrestored Remington era gun.

Looking forward to your input and discussion.

[Dean Romig]

Scott, that LOP of 13 1/8" with a SST is just about right for an uncut stock. If it were a double trigger gun you could add just about an inch (or 7/8") making a LOP of about 14" which is a pretty standard LOP.

If you don't want the adjustable "pad" that's on there now it would probably be pretty easy to have the correct "Parker Ilion NY" dog's head butt plate installed - or if you plan to shoot trap with it you can have a 'period correct' recoil pad installed.. There are folks who can just about make those cracks in the BTFE disappear

[George M. Purtill]

Although Dean is the smartest guy I don't know, there is no such thing as a "Parker Ilion NY" dogs head butt plate but there is a period correct DHBP that only says Parker over the circle of the Dog's head. [God I hope I am wrong as I would give my right arm for such a cool thing.] Dean is correct that a period correct plate would be an easy fix.
Where are you? There are lots of skilled members on our forum.
Thanks for all the good pictures.

[Dean Romig]

:o

I was thinking of the grip cap... my face is red.

[Mike Franzen]

xxx

[Brian Dudley]

Here are some observations I notice on your gun. The LOP from the trigger to the wood on your stock sounds short, but you have a rear position single trigger. So... The LOP of the wood is about normal for a gun that would have a standard double trigger setup. So, depending on how the gun feels to you when shooting it, you may want to put a recoil pad back into it in order to get a good feel of LOP with the single trigger. More of a period correct pad would be just the ticket.

Another thing I notice is that your gun does not have the 1pc. Forend loop which would be standard fare to be used with a Beavertail forend. But... Your forend iron is correct for a Beavertail with the drawbolt.

I wonder if your gun was originally a splinter forend gun with double triggers and it was returned to the factory for the SST and BTFE. Some might argue that Remington would install the 1pc forend loop on the barrels of converting to a BTFE, but I personally doubt it.
There is also a slight stamping font difference between the Serial number on the water table and the number on the forend. But this is just a Suggestion that it could have been a repair addition. Not a tell tale sign.

There are some odd looking Stampings on the barrel flats of your gun, but they do not look like typical repair codes to me. And I doubt a gun as late as yours would have records saying if the SST and BTFE is original or not. Who knows at this time.

[Scott Siegmund]

Scott, that LOP of 13 1/8" with a SST is just about right for an uncut stock. If it were a double trigger gun you could add just about an inch (or 7/8") making a LOP of about 14" which is a pretty standard LOP.

If you don't want the adjustable "pad" that's on there now it would probably be pretty easy to have the correct "Parker Ilion NY" dog's head butt plate installed - or if you plan to shoot trap with it you can have a 'period correct' recoil pad installed.. There are folks who can just about make those cracks in the BTFE disappear

Thanks Dean, the LOP/cut stock issue has been haunting me for years. Having a correct butt plate sitting in the safe would be nice. Regarding the existing pad, I like it from a functional standpoint. LOP and sight picture is very good as it is.

I figured someone could improve on the BTFE repair, the resin used could have been mixed better. With linoleum flooring we would sand a piece of the material and mix the dust with white glue for seam/crack putty. One could make 'issues' virtually undetectable with that technique. I'd imagine wood repair is similar.

Although Dean is the smartest guy I don't know, there is no such thing as a "Parker Ilion NY" dogs head butt plate but there is a period correct DHBP that only says Parker over the circle of the Dog's head. [God I hope I am wrong as I would give my right arm for such a cool thing.] Dean is correct that a period correct plate would be an easy fix.
Where are you? There are lots of skilled members on our forum.
Thanks for all the good pictures.

Dean's been a great source of information as have other members here!

I reside in Lane County, OR.

You're welcome for the pics, it's another of too many hobbies. :)

If there's more specific pics you'd like just hollar.

:o

I was thinking of the grip cap... my face is red.

I hate it when that happens! :banghead: LOL

[Dave Noreen]

Another thing I notice is that your gun does not have the 1pc. Forend loop which would be standard fare to be used with a Beavertail forend.

Look again. Yes it does!!

Great example of a late Remington gun with some options.

[Scott Siegmund]

Here are some observations I notice on your gun. The LOP from the trigger to the wood on your stock sounds short, but you have a rear position single trigger. So... The LOP of the wood is about normal for a gun that would have a standard double trigger setup. So, depending on how the gun feels to you when shooting it, you may want to put a recoil pad back into it in order to get a good feel of LOP with the single trigger. More of a period correct pad would be just the ticket.

Another thing I notice is that your gun does not have the 1pc. Forend loop which would be standard fare to be used with a Beavertail forend. But... Your forend iron is correct for a Beavertail with the drawbolt.

I wonder if your gun was originally a splinter forend gun with double triggers and it was returned to the factory for the SST and BTFE. Some might argue that Remington would install the 1pc forend loop on the barrels of converting to a BTFE, but I personally doubt it.
There is also a slight stamping font difference between the Serial number on the water table and the number on the forend. But this is just a Suggestion that it could have been a repair addition. Not a tell tale sign.

There are some odd looking Stampings on the barrel flats of your gun, but they do not look like typical repair codes to me. And I doubt a gun as late as yours would have records saying if the SST and BTFE is original or not. Who knows at this time.
Brian,

Thanks for the insight, all those details are what make this a very interesting puzzle to piece together.

What I do know is the individual that acquired the gun for my father was an avid competitive trap shooter and a good one at that. So the gun may well have come from the trap shooting scene which to me means it could well have been sent back for upgrades.

I just reached out to Roy Marcot who is a friend of a friend that I met on hunting trip back in 2006 when he was co-authoring the book Remington .22 Rimfire Rifles with my friend. Roy is an avid historian and current President of the Remington Society so maybe he can add a few pieces to the puzzle.

[Scott Siegmund]

Another thing I notice is that your gun does not have the 1pc. Forend loop which would be standard fare to be used with a Beavertail forend. But... Your forend iron is correct for a Beavertail with the drawbolt.

Look again. Yes it does!!

Great example of a late Remington gun with some options.

I am not familiar with what a 1pc. forend loop is, could someone please clarify?

If there's better pictures I can supply let me know.

Thanks

[George M. Purtill]

Look again. Yes it does!!

Great example of a late Remington gun with some options.

yup Agreed
It's had to see at the angle of the picture but the tell tale curve on the breech side is there.

[Chuck Bishop]

Scott,

We unfortunately have no information on your gun. I would be interested in the frame size of your gun. It's possible it's on a size 1/2 frame. Remington started using the 1/2 frame size in the mid 30's. This frame size is relatively rare because it's almost as small as a frame size commonly used on the 20ga. guns. Look on the bottom of the rear lug on the barrels. There should be a number stamped on the flat. It could be a 3, 2, 1 1/2, 1, or 1/2.

The Morgan adjustable pad was very popular with target shooters in the 70's and I believe it's still sold today. That said, they look terrible on a vintage gun. You could keep the Morgan and put it on when you need to shoot the gun but have a vintage correct pad fitted such as a repro Silvers or Hawkins pad when displaying the gun. A 1" pad would make the LOP perfect.

Nice gun!

[Brian Dudley]

Look again. Yes it does!!

Great example of a late Remington gun with some options.



Ah yes! I was looking at the one photo showing the front of the loop. This making us look like a standard loop. My mistake. Thanks.

[Dean Romig]

It is easiest to see the one-piece forend lug in the picture seventh from the last. It's a bit out of focus but unmistakable that it is the one-piece lug.

[Scott Siegmund]

Scott,

We unfortunately have no information on your gun. I would be interested in the frame size of your gun. It's possible it's on a size 1/2 frame. Remington started using the 1/2 frame size in the mid 30's. This frame size is relatively rare because it's almost as small as a frame size commonly used on the 20ga. guns. Look on the bottom of the rear lug on the barrels. There should be a number stamped on the flat. It could be a 3, 2, 1 1/2, 1, or 1/2.

The Morgan adjustable pad was very popular with target shooters in the 70's and I believe it's still sold today. That said, they look terrible on a vintage gun. You could keep the Morgan and put it on when you need to shoot the gun but have a vintage correct pad fitted such as a repro Silvers or Hawkins pad when displaying the gun. A 1" pad would make the LOP perfect.

Nice gun!
Chuck,

Thanks for looking and the compliment. The frame is a 1-1/2 with 30" barrels both full choke.

I gave Roy Marcot the info on the gun today, if there are records I'm betting he'll know. http://www.remingtonsociety.com/rsa/research/

Thanks for the input on the pads, I agree on the looks, functionally low comb guns beat me up even with field loads. Probably related to how I shoulder a gun due to past shoulder separations and broken collar bone.

[Brian Dudley]

The Remington Society will likely be of little help to you.

You are in the right place for information right HERE. And if we do t have them, that means the records essentially do not exist.

[Scott Siegmund]

The Remington Society will likely be of little help to you.

You are in the right place for information right HERE. And if we don't have them, that means the records essentially do not exist.

I agree Brian, but since I had the connection I figured it was worth a shot.

[Bill Zachow]

Seig, you might check with Lawrence DelGrego in Illion. When I owned a VHE 28 gauge, Larry's shop had some typed information on very late, Remington produced guns. His dad showed me the information but I can no longer remember any of it. His grandfather got the information from Remington when he took over the repairs for Parkers and bought parts and tooling from Remington.

[Bill Zachow]

Seig, forgot to mention, my 28 was in the same age ballpark as your gun, 242103.

[Scott Siegmund]

Seig, you might check with Lawrence DelGrego in Illion. When I owned a VHE 28 gauge, Larry's shop had some typed information on very late, Remington produced guns. His dad showed me the information but I can no longer remember any of it. His grandfather got the information from Remington when he took over the repairs for Parkers and bought parts and tooling from Remington.

Seig, forgot to mention, my 28 was in the same age ballpark as your gun, 242103.

Thanks Bill.

When did DelGrego take over repair work from Remington?

What was your 28's date of manufacture/assembly?

[Bill Zachow]

Seig, DelGrego worked for Remington as part of the Parker manufacturing group that had come to Illion from Meriden. He worked on Parker repairs and when Remington decided to get out of the repair business in the late 40s early 50s, Larry senior, senior bought the remaining Parker parts and took over all repairs as a private business. My 28 VHE was shipped in April of 1941. I only know that because I had a letter from Remington to the original buyer, confirming his order. Shortly thereafter, Remington issued a letter to all their distributors indicating that they were out of the civilian gun business by government decree.

[Scott Siegmund]

Seig, DelGrego worked for Remington as part of the Parker manufacturing group that had come to Illion from Meriden. He worked on Parker repairs and when Remington decided to get out of the repair business in the late 40s early 50s, Larry senior, senior bought the remaining Parker parts and took over all repairs as a private business. My 28 VHE was shipped in April of 1941. I only know that because I had a letter from Remington to the original buyer, confirming his order. Shortly thereafter, Remington issued a letter to all their distributors indicating that they were out of the civilian gun business by government decree.

Bill,

Thank you, this information is very interesting. I wish my father was around to share it as he was a real wartime history buff. Your 28 being a 139 guns earlier has me real curious about the ship date of mine and Remington's transition to military manufacturing.

Very interesting and exciting!

Edit: I spoke to Larry on the phone today, great no-nonsense guy and wealth of information. He spoke very highly of the late guns produced by Remington and explained the ejector issue with my gun which was an added bonus. Thanks again.