Need your input on 2 1/2" 20 ga shells

[Karl Ferguson]

I shoot RST 2 3/4" - 7/8 oz - 7 1/2's in all my 20 ga's. I've never owned or shot a gun with 2 1/2 shells and the Parker VH 20 I looked at is chambered for 2 1/2" shells.

I would appreciate any input on the performance of the 2 1/2" shells in a 20 vs the 2 3/4 RST's I currently use. My primary use is for dove and quail and sporting clays for practice.

Thanks in advance

[Bill Davis]

I use both of those loads and there is no appreciable difference in performance. They are virtually identical in my usage.

[Dean Romig]

So, if you're buying RST 2 3/4" 20 ga. ammo why don't you simply change to RST 2 1/2" 20 ga. ammo?

I find RST's 2 1/2" ammo in all gauges (except 10 ga.) to be completely effective and totally adequate for hunting upland birds as well as clays.

[Phillip Carr]

This past year between dog training, trials, and bird hunting ( all on birds were pen raised or wild). We shot about 5 cases of RST shells in 2 1/2". May not seem like a lot of shells when compared to a skeet shooter, but a true test of performance under field conditions.
For performance with low recoil, lower report and excellent patterns the RST shells are hard to beat. For the conditions we hunt in over our dogs nothing's performs better. This may sound like a sales pitch for 2 1/2" RST shells, but I would not know the guys that produce RST shells if they knocked on my door. Truth is these shells are not cheap but are still the least expensive part of our hunts. We actually shot 20 and 28 gauge shells with equally great performance. Spreader and woodcock loads were part of the mix. Shot my recently acquired DH 28 gauge that is chambered for 2 3/4" shells using the 2 1/2" Spreader loads due to it being choked Full/Mod. Killed Mearns quail out to 30 yards. Just my 2 cents based on my experience.

[Karl Ferguson]

Dean,

I tried to find some today so I could try them myself and form my own opinion. Ordering some from RST wasn't an option since the gentleman want's my decision on the VH 20 tomorrow. I was hoping people with their own experience could let me know if they noticed any difference in performance.

[Alfred Greeson]

I think the RST 2 1/2 20's are great and a Parker VH 20 is a sweet little gun. Don't miss a chance to pick one up if the price is right, they don't stay on the market for long.

[John Taddeo]

I would be very surprised if you could actually tell difference... its all in knowing how your gun patterns with each load..

[Bruce Day]

or a person could just buy regular Winchester AAs on sale

[Kenny Graft]

My working guns from Fox and Parker with steel barrels and short chambers. I have my chambers and cones moved ahead for 2 3/4 shells. If it a go to gun that I plan to use and its not a hi condition collectible (safe queen). Its kinda like putting power steering on a old car that had non power....no its not original but sure is nice! It has never hurt the resale value of any guns that have had chambers opened. That way I can shoot the Winchester and estate target loads on up to light field loads and not pay double for short shells. It also helps with recoil and shot deformation at the cones for better patterns. Its a win win! Brad has three of my VH-16 barrel sets as we speak, he does great work at a fair price! SXS ohio

[Rich Anderson]

I wouldn't mess with the chamber length of the proposed VH 20 for any reason. You most likely can shoot either 2 3/4 or the 2 1/2 length in it. I have gone to using the 2 1/2 inch shell in all my guns. I haven't noticed any difference in performance on the clays course or in the field. I can miss equally well with either:rotf:

[John Campbell]

As he often does, BD makes a valid point. And comes very close to the crux of the issue: Equating cartridge length with "power" and potential over-stress of the barrels.

Neither is necessarily the case.

A 2 1/2 inch cartridge can be just as effective as a 2 3/4 inch. In fact, the extra 1/4 or so is simply there to accommodate the crimp fold. BD's photo shows this.

And, as has been flogged out many times on this board, Sherman Bell has long since proven through scientific tests that this extra 1/4 inch of case has virtually no effect on chamber pressure.

Thus, lengthening a Parker chamber is virtually pointless. And might even be dangerous.

(But Bachelder would NOT do "dangerous")

[jerry serie]

Just a follow-up question on RST spreader loads. Do they really enlarge the pattern by about one choke? I have an original 20 ga. DHE w/ full chokes and would like to use it on woodcock, but do not want to open the chokes. Will spreader loads improve the patterns over the regular 2 1/2 loads?

Thanks ......Jerry

[Rich Anderson]

It's my understanding that the spreader loads will open your pattern about one choke size for example full to mod but the only way to know for sure is by patterning them. The length of the shell should make no difference.

[Bruce Day]

Buy a box and see for yourself. People can have all kinds of opinions and all sorts of advertising statements that do not last beyond the first trigger pull.

But the difference between full choke and cylinder bore at 30 yards is five inches radius ( each side) for an effective killing circle for a game bird. If your aim is off, a broader pattern will not truly help you. On the other hand, if the problem is that you are centering the bird and making mincemeat out of it, why not change to a lesser charge? A good shot can use a full choke gun and hit the head and neck of a pheasant or duck, that will kill them dead in the air The problem with full choke and small birds is that it hits them too hard .

If you are shooting clays only, it doesn't take much to break the target and you don't worry much about a killing pattern. There the broader the better but for holes in the pattern.

Some of us do enough shotgun instruction to see that most misses are by a matter of feet or even yards, usually not enough lead on a crossing target. Fine tuning the shot pattern size will not cure a miss of three feet.

[Dave Noreen]

Back in the early 1920s, when Western Cartridge Co. introduced the use of progressive burning smokeless powder and high velocity shotshells with the introduction of their Super-X loads, their new 20-gauge 1 ounce load was put up in their 2 3/4 inch FIELD shell. Most of our other North American ammunition companies followed and put their 1 ounce progressive burning powder 20-gauge loads up in a 2 3/4 inch case, Remington Nitro Express, Peters High Velocity, etc. Winchester, possibly because they had many customers out there with their 20-gauge Model 12s made for 2 1/2 inch shells offered a choice --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Winchester/Super-Speed%202%203-4%20inch%2020-gauge_zpscklbp1xn.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Winchester/Super-Speed%202%201-2%20inch%2020-gauge_zpsschifisq.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Winchester/20-gaugeSuper-Speed1934_zps33ba39bc.jpeg

These are both roll crimp shells. The pie crimp was introduced by our North American manufacturers in the 1938/9 time frame on their Trap and Skeet loads, but didn't begin appearing on hunting loads until after WW-II.