ATF considering stopping ammo sales

[Robin Lewis]

I know we are not to post any political posts in the forum but I hope this doesn't fall under the political ban. I think this is something anyone in the shooting community should be aware of, so please no flames. My intent is to simply make you aware of this, if you have not read about it anywhere else. I have tried to keep the wording simply informational, without opinions that might cause any type of discussion. As one of my favorite cops would say: "Just the facts mam, just the facts".

The ATF is considering stopping the sale of 5.56mm ammunition!

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives issued a white paper to determine whether certain ammunition is "primarily intended for sporting purposes." At issue is 5.56mm M855 ammo, which is considered "armor piercing," and therefore the ATF says it's of questionable merit for the average citizen. If you want to read the ATF white paper, here is a link to it: http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/Library/Notices/atf_framework_for_determining_whether_certain_proj ectiles_are_primarily_intended_for_sporting_purpos es.pdf


So what can you do? Contact your federal representatives and the ATF.

If you never contacted your representative before and need to know how, this link should help: http://www.usa.gov/Agencies.shtml
The ATF bureau will not acknowledge receipt of comments, but you can submit them in the following ways:
· ATF email: APAComments@atf.gov
· Fax: (202) 648-9741
· Mail: Denise Brown, Mailstop 6N-602, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226: ATTN: AP Ammo Comments.

[Dean Romig]

Interesting that there is nothing in the Constitution or the Second Amendment regarding "Sporting" arms or ammunition.

[Bruce Day]

This is only the steel core armor piercing ammo. Nothing to do with .223 lead bullets. I'm not aware that anybody uses armor piercing bullets for fox or prairie dogs.

The armor piercing rounds will penetrate cars or Kevlar vests.

[wayne goerres]

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings but they are not considering it they have already done it. As of march 1 it can no longer be sold for civilian use.

[John Campbell]

The armor piercing rounds will penetrate cars or Kevlar vests.

Ahem... and with all due respect, that, good sir, is precisely the point.

[Richard Flanders]

More specifically, from what I've read, they are considering banning the green tipped 62gr M855 ammo, which has half-assed AP capability and which is now a bit outdated by the latest and better version and is being dumped on the civilian market. If anyone wants some before it's too late, Widners? Wiedners? is the best source if they were able to get some more in stock.

[Bruce Day]

Ahem... and with all due respect, that, good sir, is precisely the point.

Foolish me. Since I am no longer flying over Vietnam, Iraq, Somalia, etc, I thought my need for armor piercing bullets was past.

[Stephen Hodges]

Ahem... and with all due respect, that, good sir, is precisely the point.

???????

[Stephen Hodges]

You know, I should probably keep my mouth shut, but after spending 28 years in Law Enforcement and much of that time wearing a bullet proof vest so that I may go home to my family if I encountered some nut that wanted to kill me, I see no reason for someone to have that type of ammo. None. And yes, I support the 2nd Amendment..........................Please consider our Law Enforcement folks when you make a blanket decision to oppose a regulation that has NO effect on your personal life. It has an effect on there's. Thanks.

[Robert Delk]

I believe it is also against the law for civilians to wear body armor.
I find that strange since civilians are shot in far greater numbers than law enforcement officers.

[Stephen Hodges]

I believe it is also against the law for civilians to wear body armor.
I find that strange since civilians are shot in far greater numbers than law enforcement officers.

Not correct, but there is a bill in Congress, presented at the end of January, that would make it a felony for American Citizens to own type 3 body armor, bill is HR 378. Has not passed yet.

[Robin Lewis]

Good to know what is behind this. The article I read was current (at least it seemed to be) and led me to believe they were taking action against "regular" 5.65 ammo by using the armor piercing reg and that it had not yet been acted upon. Looks like that was wrong on all counts. I'm sorry for making this post.

Maybe the moderator should close this thread?

[Robert Delk]

I'm glad to hear that it is not the law.

[will evans]

The public should be able to overthrow a "police state". At least two of the above points threaten that capacity.

[John Campbell]

xxx

[Daryl Corona]

Steve;
What exactly is a type 3 vest and why would they want to outlaw them? I have a business associate who has a business in downtown Baltimore. He has been robbed once and pistol whipped another time. He endured a two year battle to get a concealed carry permit here in the peoples republic of Maryland and wears a vest while at work.

[will evans]

Yeah, that's what everyone says - just surrender if the SHTF. And that's what they want everyone to think, but how many of those do they have? I live in a city of 5 million people. A local police department doesnt have the muscle to truly clamp down a community. The FEDs are who people don't trust. Or maybe just a zip code wide looting event. What happens when our fiat currency crumbles?

Here's an MRAP that didn't make it home Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicle (http://www.businessinsider.com/the-aftermath-of-this-vehicle-demolished-by-a-500-pound-roadside-bomb-is-what-troops-risk-everyday-2012-5#the-cougar-is-said-to-have-a-go-anywhere-do-anything-and-return-home-to-tell-about-it-attitude-1)

[Robert Delk]

I just don't trust the federal government after being part of the Vietnam fiasco and view any attempt by them to make it easier to quell civilian unrest as reason to be concerned.

[Stephen Hodges]

Steve;
What exactly is a type 3 vest and why would they want to outlaw them? I have a business associate who has a business in downtown Baltimore. He has been robbed once and pistol whipped another time. He endured a two year battle to get a concealed carry permit here in the peoples republic of Maryland and wears a vest while at work.

Level III is typically the highest level of protection you will find in soft armor. This vest will protect you from everything from a BB gun to a .44 magnum. As to why a bill was filed to make them against the law, your theory is as good as mine.

[Pete Lester]

I just don't trust the federal government after being part of the Vietnam fiasco and view any attempt by them to make it easier to quell civilian unrest as reason to be concerned.

There are many examples of our government unfairly using force against citizens. Some like the WWI veterans who went to Washington D.C. to protest the government reneging on it's promise of a "bonus" payment is forgotten. There are many other examples, Kent State, Ruby Ridge, Waco............

http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/bonusm.htm

[wayne goerres]

Maybe they don't want criminals to become bullet proof (like they are going to obey the law).

[Richard Flanders]

There is also level 4 body armor available that will repel a 7.62 round. Body armor is getting increasingly lighter and more effective. Some of the level 3 stuff weighs at least 35#. Don't know how anyone could wear it under much activity in a hot climate. And a dizzying variety of body armor and vests to carry it in are readily available at gun shows and off the Internet.

[John Allen]

Gentlemen,the ATF wants to disarm you in any way they can.If you think they will not come after your Parkers,you are sadly mistaken.When I pointed out to an ATF agent that my store inventory was 90% curio and relics,his answer was "I know you don't sell crime guns,I don't care.Your guns are no different than an AK47 to me."That pretty well sums up their attitude.They are not our friends.

[David Dwyer]

It may be against the law where you live but, to the best of my knowledge, not in SC.
David

[Rich Anderson]

This is only the steel core armor piercing ammo. Nothing to do with .223 lead bullets. I'm not aware that anybody uses armor piercing bullets for fox or prairie dogs.

The armor piercing rounds will penetrate cars or Kevlar vests.

This is just the beginning. That's like saying it's just a little skin cancer nothing to worry about:eek:

[Ray Masciarella]

This is a subject I should stay out of but I can't.

2d Amendment: There is no need for the 2d Amendment to address sporting arms and ammo. The Sup Ct in the recent Heller and MacDonald cases held that individuals are entitled to own and possess firearms for self defense (and other reasons). It doesn't matter what type of firearm it is so long as it is the type traditionally used for that purpose, eg rifle, shotgun, handgun, etc. It can't be a RPG.

Law enforcement: Here is where I'll really get in trouble if my words are misconstrued. Why can LEOs wear a vest and citizens cannot. We can't protect ourselves in the same fashion? Generally, law enforcement cannot protect us from say a home invasion unless they are posted at our front doors. All they can do is investigate the crime once it happens and hopefully catch the criminal. Now I don't believe many of us would wear a vest in our homes, but who is to say we cannot?

The militarization of law enforcement is concerning. At a duck hunt this season, a federal officer showed up in a vest with all sorts of different weapons hanging all over him. To do what? Protect himself against a bunch of duck hunters with bird shot? It is nothing more than intimination in my view.

The gov't wants all the goodies. it will tell you it is for our security. The more freedom we give up for the sake of security, the less we will have of both.

[allan.mclane]

Here is another article that examines the strategies being used to manipulate the rules for ideological purposes:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/413952/pincer-movement-ammunition-kevin-d-williamson

I'm betting they'll find some rubric to take down shotgun shells next...

As Rick Losey said over in the recent NRA Membership post, "Heck- think what would happen if every gun owner voted, and voted as if they wanted to keep them." It's high time we all made more noise over this!