Different butt stock and grip cap

[Dennis E. Jones]

I certain the butt stock of my D grade ten bore has been replaced as the quality of the wood is not up to D grade standards, at least like others I've seen. There is no gold initial shield on this stock. The skeleton butt plate is there but, someone cut a thin slice off the original stock and put it on this one so he didn't have to re-cut the checkering. Don't know whether he was clever or lazy. The fit is as close as any original so I'm wondering if a smith ordered a replacement from Parker but, in a lower grade. I've not seen a grip cap like this one so again I'm wondering if it has been modified.

What say you fellows?

[charlie cleveland]

the stock looks correct to me..but the grip cap is custom...charlie

[Brian Dudley]

No drop points. So not correct for a D grade. But it does have a 3 point checkering pattern. So if it is an original Parker stock, then it is from a G grade. Checkering looks recut and it doesn't have the proper mullerd border.

[Bruce Day]

xxx

[Brian Dudley]

With all due respect Bruce, a serial number simply being under the guard does not guarantee originality of the stock. But it is a place to start looking when checking for originality.

[Dean Romig]

The grip cap with the gold escutcheon looks like it is from a Grade 5 or BH Parker. It is very nicely done and engraved around the screw like a few I have seen. They often had more engraving on the gold cap but I have seen a couple of them with only minimal engraving like this one. As Brian says, the rest of the stock looks to have come from a Grade 2 Parker.

I just took a close look and see that the checkering is done in the Remington style. Are there any Remington date codes on the left barrel flat?

[Brian Dudley]

But no border is visible on the bottom of the grip. Which leads me to believe it has just be incorrectly recut.

[Dean Romig]

The boys at Remington weren't always well versed in the old Parker Bros. nuances in checkering and a number of other features of the Parker Gun. It could still very well have been done at Remington in Ilion.

As a prime example of the 'license' they took in stock work and variations in checkering take a look at the checkering on the straight grip of Russ Jackson's CHE 20 ga.

[Chuck Bishop]

That gun is a GH, not a DH. Look at the receiver engraving. What is the number below the S/N on the receiver flat and what is the full serial number?

[Brian Dudley]

It could be a very early DH, which has less engraving coverage on the frame.

[Dean Romig]

If those are ducks I see flying in that vignette then it is a Grade-2.

[Dennis E. Jones]

That gun is a GH, not a DH. Look at the receiver engraving. What is the number below the S/N on the receiver flat and what is the full serial number?

I got to worrying that I was wrong about the grade so I dug it back out and checked. It is an ten bore with Damascus barrels, serial #57431, there is a 3 above the serial number and a "D" below. The engraving on the action panels is of pointing dogs not birds like on my G grade guns. So from the above I concluded it was a D grade. Am I wrong? I have a similar marked 12 bore that has drop points on the stock cheeks and I believe it is a D grade also.

I'm certainly no expert but do love old side by side shotguns or rifles no matter what gauge or caliber or who made them.

Best regards to all who have chimed in.

[Rick Losey]

57431 lists as a D3 10 with 32 inch Damascus barrels

Close ups of the engraving would help

[Dean Romig]

Pointing dogs on the side panels along with the serial number and grade stamps on the water table confirm it as a Grade-3 or DH.

[Steve Huffman]

letter time

[John Dallas]

xxx

[Chuck Bishop]

My apologies to Mr. Jones, it is listed in the Order Book as a DH. It's within a few thousands of the earliest hammerless guns. Mr. Dudley nailed it as a very early hammerless gun. The question is is this gun's engraving pattern the same for all these early DH hammerless guns, if so, when did the change to the pattern we are used to seeing on DH's happen? I wonder what a GH or PH in the same serial number range would look like? Let's see some closeups of the 3 sides of the receiver. If the engraving pattern was different, could it also be that Parker didn't put the cheek drop points on either at this early time? I think the stock is original.

We don't have the Stock Book for this gun but we do have the Order Book. The info is worth a letter.

[Brian Dudley]

Another detail to note about stock checkering on these early DH guns. Where the pattern comes up into the crotch of the grip, they cut them up at a sharp angle at that point. This is a feature I have only seen on these very early hammerless guns.

[Rick Losey]

The question is is this gun's engraving pattern the same for all these early DH hammerless guns, if so, when did the change to the pattern we are used to seeing on DH's happen?

I would like to see the dogs as well, the earliest DH patterns were different than the later norm


55801- about the 20th DH 12 listed in the serialization book -(i know there are gaps)

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=588&pictureid=6897


http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=588&pictureid=6898

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=588&pictureid=6899

[Gerald McPherson]

ANY DROP POINTS ON THAT GUN?

[Rick Losey]

ANY DROP POINTS ON THAT GUN?

no- BUT unfortunately - this gun is wearing what may be the third stock- the letter says it was back once for restocking- but the current stock has no serial number under the trigger guard, great wood, still has its skeletal buttplate and checkered butt, and has the plugs from weight being bore out for balance - however without the number stamped - I am assuming this was not Parker work

[Dean Romig]

Some of the very earliest hammerless guns only had the scroll and game scenes without the oval vignette.

[Brian Dudley]

See attached photo of an original stock from a DH in the 62,000 serial range.

Note drop points as well as the style of checkering pattern down in crotch of grip.

39317

[Brian Dudley]

Engraving from the same DH gun in the 62,000 range.

39318

[Dennis E. Jones]

Here's the best pictures we could get of the engraving. Thought I would mention the forend is worn to the point that the checkering is completely gone except for a shadow at the very tip end. As I stated in the beginning I'm sure the butt stock is a replacement as the checkering is quite fresh but does not appear, at least to me, to have been re-cut. Someone thought enough of it to have the stock replaced probably twice. I wonder how many ducks and geese were taken with it? As the saying goes, if it could only talk.

[Dean Romig]

Yup, early"D".

[Dean Romig]

Dennis, I'll ask again - You probably missed my question before.... Are there any Remington date codes on the left barrel flat?

This is an example of Remington codes. The codes are stamped, in this case, just beneath the "Overload Parker Gun Works Proved" stamp.



.

[Dennis E. Jones]

Mr. Romig,

I wouldn't know a Remington date code from a blind date so here is what is on the barrel flats.

[Rick Losey]

nice - same sides as mine with a different dog on the floor

[Dean Romig]

Thanks Mr. Jones, but the place where the Remington codes would be is obscured by the part of the lug with the 2 stamped on it. If you could rotate it a bit more so we can see the complete left barrel flat, that might help... or there may not be any codes there at all.

Thanks, Dean

[Dennis E. Jones]

Mr. Romig,

The only number on that flat is the 0 towards the front. So that means there are no Remington codes, right? As I said earlier, if it could only talk what stories might it tell.

[Dean Romig]

You're correct Mr. Jones - no Remington codes. "If only that gun could talk."