understanding Parker barrels

[Rick Riddell]

What modern loads are safe to shoot it various types of barrel grades used. The two I'm familiar with are the Vulcan and Trojan. I've heard of the acme, damascus, twist and titanic but dont know anything about them. A little schooling would be great as I plan to venture further up the chain! Once again thanks guys !

[Mike Franzen]

Opinions will vary on what loads are safe to shoot. If you spend time researching and reading the threads that deal with this topic you will gain valuable insight.

[Dean Romig]

Mike is correct - opinions vary widely. Suffice to say that your barrels need to have sufficient wall thickness with no flaws, dents, bulges or severe pits. You need to know exactly what your chamber length is. Stay away from "magnum" loads or shell lengths more than 1/8" longer than your chambers.

[Mark Ouellette]

What modern loads are safe to shoot it various types of barrel grades used.

Hi Rick,

Good question which is often debated by knowledgeable people and also by those who believe everything that their great uncle told them. Oh, then that are those who read in in a magazine or a website so it must be true... Good grief for most of those experts don't know the difference between yield and tensile strength, let alone what neuberization is.

The above rant stated, I have vintage guns with Damascus barrels which have the minimum barrel wall thickness throughout the entire length of the barrels appropriate for SAAMI maximum mean working pressure loads, i.e. modern factory loads. I also own guns with fluid steel barrels which are thin enough at high pressure areas that even a risk tolerant shooter as I will not shoot over 8000 PSI loads in them. In factory ammo RST loads are around 8000 psi.

If the above is Greek to you then please read, learn to measure your own barrels, do the math and only then make an informed decision that you can live with.

PS: If shooting old guns scares anyone please know that jet aircraft engines would tear themselves apart if it were not for neuberization of the stress. The stess in these engines, like the ones on passenger jets, exceed the ultimate tensile strength of the rotating parts. :eek:

Mark

[Dean Romig]

PS: If shooting old guns scares anyone please know that jet aircraft engines would tear themselves apart if it were not for neuberization of the stress. The stess in these engines, like the ones on passenger jets, exceed the ultimate tensile strength of the rotating parts. :eek:Mark

Wow! Thanks Mark... I've absolutely destroyed the last three jet engines that I have built and never knew why... Ya learn something new every day on this site. :shock:

(all tongue in cheek)

[Drew Hause]

These might help
http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=12593

https://docs.google.com/a/damascusknowledge.com/document/d/1y52UbLaVsDAYd3BJLNTzTnqa7CzuhnbgonQzuYRuLvs/edit

Scroll down to:
Damascus Mythology & Reality
Damascus Quality
Barrel Strength and the 1891 Birmingham Proof House Report
Turn-of-the-Century Shotshells, Powder & Ballistics
Barrel Evaluation Recommendations and Non-Destructive Testing

[Rick Riddell]

Thanks guys! I should have been more specific with what I call modern ammo, what I meant was the basic shells we use today, not the crazy stuff thats out there now. Would Parker special steel, Titanic steel, Vulcan steel and Trojan steel be classified as the same type of steel just different grade of gun? For fear of the unkown and lack of qualified gunsmiths Downeast I'm avoiding damacus and twist barrels.

[Dean Romig]

Well Rick - send all those Damascus and Twist barreled Parkers my way please :D

Dave Suponski can better answer your question about the subtle differences between the fluid-pressed steels you mention.

[Drew Hause]

1. No one on the internet can tell you if YOUR barrels are safe. And it is very unlikely that anyone can tell you what abuse/modification your barrels and action have endured since the gun was new 100 years ago. NO vintage double should be used without an evaluation by a double gun specialist.
Please see http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=366087

2. From the Parker Brothers 1893 Catalog
“Our guns are bored on the latest improved system for shooting Nitros, or Smokeless Powder, and all our guns are tested with some one of the most approved makes, and a tag accompanies each gun, giving the results of such a (pattern) test.”
Parker Bros. did not differentiate between fluid steel and pattern welded barrels. I choose to believe them.

3. 12g Parker SN 71792 c. 1891 was patterned with 1 1/4 oz. No. 7 and 42 grains DuPont. A 1900 Parker hang tag states that 12g 2 5/8” chambered guns were patterned at 40 yds. in a 30” circle using 2 3/4” shells with 1 1/8 oz. No. 7 chilled shot and 40 grains (3 1/4 Dram) of DuPont Bulk Smokeless powder. (Courtesy of Bruce Day)

4. The 1933 edition of ”Smokeless Shotgun Powders” by Wallace Coxe and E.I. du Pont de Nemours & Co. reported the LUP pressure for 1 1/4 oz. 3 Dram Eq. of DuPont Bulk Smokeless at 9,600 psi. Modern piezoelectric transducer pressure would be about 10% higher.

5. Dave's study clearly showed that the chemical composition of the 4 Parker named barrels (Titanic, Trojan, Vulcan, Parker steels) was not the same.

6. Without tensile strength testing, we can not know, but may assume the tensile strength of the Parker fluid steel barrels are at least that of a specimen of Hunter Arms Armor (lowest grade) steel which was 101,000 psi. Modern AISI 4140 Chrome-Molybdenum (shotgun barrel) Steel tensile strength is 95,000 - 100,000 psi.
IF, as I believe, "Parker Steel" is Cold Rolled Decarbonized Steel, it likely has a tensile strength similar to Winchester Standard Ordnance (Bessemer) “Rolled” Steel of 66,000- 69,000 psi.

7. Loads within the pressure levels recommended by Parker Bros. MAY however generate recoil that may harm now 100 year old stock wood. Some choose to glasbed the head of their stocks if planning on using 1 1/4 oz. 3 1/4 dram loads.

Get your Parker evaluated Rick, then enjoy your treasure :)