Worn Hinge Pin?

[allen newell]

I have a 16ga VH that once was my grandfathers. About 8 yrs ago, I dropped it off at DelGrego's for a major restoration (new wood, rust blue, and case colors). There was some play in the barrel to frame fit so I sent it back to Lawrence for repair. Lawrence did something with the fore end so that when the fore end is on, the gun is tight. However, with the fore end off, the fit up is loose, not greatly but I can feel it. Talked with Lawrence about this and was told to not to worry as the fore end was doing its job by tightening the action up fine. I'd like some second opinions as this is a family heirloom that will likely go to my grandson when I pass. By the way, the teal decoy was carved for me by Dave Warner of Oswego, NY when I was employed at S.U.C.O. Oswego in the early 70's and Dave was a student there at the time. If anyone knows of his whereabouts, pls let me know.

[Brian Dudley]

The forend is the final piece of the puzzle in a way. But the gun should be tight with the forend off.

The only thing the forend has to do with anything is maintain a tight feel when the gun is opened up.

Your tightness with the forend off is all done with the hook and the locking lug/bolt.

True, that what is really important is if the gun is tight In shooting position (with forend on), but, the forend is not considered an integral part of the "bolting mechanism" per say.

[Dean Romig]

Tightening up a Parker by the forend method involves adding material to the rear of the forend lug on the barrels and filing for a fine tight fit. This process effectively pulls the hook tighter against the hinge pin but also pulls the barrels away from the breech face and as the gun wears more at the hinge the barrels become more and more "off the face".
I would recommend sending the gun to a shop that will properly add material to the hook and finely fit the barrels as they were originally done in Meriden.... then the forend will have to be re-fit.

[John Campbell]

Opinions on this issue are endless. But some will contend they know more than the experts.

My opinion is that Del Grego is right. Feed the gun mild loads, shoot it, have fun. Don't worry about it now.

If Del Grego thought the issue needed attention during resto, he would have fixed it.

[Dean Romig]

My opinion is that Del Grego is right.


My opinion is that he didn't address the root of the problem but simply put a band-aid on it.

[John Campbell]

Opinions on this issue are endless.

Ergo est.

[Larry Frey]

Tightening up a Parker by the forend method involves adding material to the rear of the forend lug on the barrels and filing for a fine tight fit. This process effectively pulls the hook tighter against the hinge pin but also pulls the barrels away from the breech face and as the gun wears more at the hinge the barrels become more and more "off the face".
I would recommend sending the gun to a shop that will properly add material to the hook and finely fit the barrels as they were originally done in Meriden.... then the forend will have to be re-fit.

Dean,
I couldn't agree more with the above statements. I've watched a well known Parker smith remove the forend metal and peen the backside to move enough metal into the slot to tighten the gun when open. This 10 minute fix makes the gun tight when open but dose nothing to correct the off-face condition which will only get worse with continued shooting.

[chris dawe]

I remember reading last year I believe, that some one stateside was gearing up to manufacture and sell new roll joints for Parker's ...I think it was Steve Bertram ?

That would be a fantastic way to go and something I'm trying to get my machinist friends to look at for me (when their time allows ).

Other than that...what Dean said .

[Bill Murphy]

If I had a bucket full of new roll pins or rolls, I still would have to find a gunsmith to do a good job of installing them. I would rather work with the hook, which anyone handy with a soldering iron can address with shims and files. Don't get the idea that I do this on a regular basis. I have guns that I have owned for forty years or more that are a bit loose on the hinge when open. I don't worry about them. They are just fine to shoot, because they are tight when closed.

[Brian Dudley]

I am working with some local sources right now to try and have some Parker parts made that would be very beneficial. Such as replacement and oversized roll joints. Also replacement straight cut bolts for early Hammerless style guns. The other item is high headed buttplate screws that will allow for proper fitting and timing of screw slots.

I have installed some NOS roll joints that were new with no wear to them since they had never been installed in a gun. It gives the extra material needed to rework the hook with no welding. It is a great option, but the lack of usable joints make it a rare option.
The only thing os that the joint would have to be hardened. It is a good option when a gun is being re-cased.

I have a whole bin of used roll joints, but most are as worn or more worn than the one you may be needing to replace.

[Larry Frey]

I remember reading last year I believe, that some one stateside was gearing up to manufacture and sell new roll joints for Parker's ...I think it was Steve Bertram ?

That would be a fantastic way to go and something I'm trying to get my machinist friends to look at for me (when their time allows ).

Other than that...what Dean said .

Chris,
I made a roll joint for one of our members a few years ago just for the learning experience. I would have to say that it would not likely be a "cost effective" way to correct an off-face condition. I've had guns put back on face by adding material to the hook and redressing for a lot less than the cost of a new roll joint.

[allen newell]

So would the preferred solution be to send it out to have the barrel hook addressed? In as much as with the fore end on it is tight to the face, I would prefer a longer term solution short of replacing the pin.

And who would be the best shop for this job?

[John Taddeo]

I sent one to Mr. Merrington to look at (same issue , for end pulled it tight) had him put a new roll joint and back on face to finish the restoration and ice the cake.. Figured it this way, she is good for another 100 yrs.. Opinions are just that, but the gun seems to be is beautiful shape, finish her up...

[chris dawe]

Chris,
I made a roll joint for one of our members a few years ago just for the learning experience. I would have to say that it would not likely be a "cost effective" way to correct an off-face condition. I've had guns put back on face by adding material to the hook and redressing for a lot less than the cost of a new roll joint.

True,but if you could set up to run out a couple dozen or more at a time it would offset the cost ,I'm sure there's a market ...all it would take would be the right guy with the right equipment ,Parker did it once and the reproduction crowd did it years later,and Galazan must be doing it now ...Just a thought I've always had .

Like others and you have said ,Tig and refit is the most economical ,I've done it many times ....I can't help but wonder though every time one comes across the bench .....Why could no body else ever realize that Dan Lefever's ball and socket was the cure to the problem ? simply ,bloody genius !

[allen newell]

With the fore end on I slipped a piece of paper between the breech end and the frame face and closed the action. Paper tight would not slide out.

With the fore end off, I slipped a piece of paper between the breech end and the frame face and closed the action. Paper tight, would not slide out. With he fore end off, I could feel some side to side play between the breech face and frame face. No play up or down, just slight play on side to side basis.

Does that sound like enough play to send out? Or just live with it for time being?

[Steve Havener]

Line your barrel hook with a piece of common aluminum foil and close the action on a piece of tissue paper. If the paper doesn't pull out shoot the gun and enjoy it.

[Bruce Day]

....
Does that sound like enough play to send out? Or just live with it for time being?


1. No

2. Yes

[allen newell]

Thanks Bruce.
Steve. I lined the barrel hook with foil as you suggested and closed the gun. No play in action whatsoever but fore end latch would not close (Dean you were correct that any fix to the barrel hook would require re fitting of the fore end mechanism). Since the play is not severe, I'll follow Bruce Day's advice and live with it for now. Thanks to all and Happy New Year