Terry Schraner

[Terry Schraner]

I am seeking info. concerning the long range Parker 20 and 16 gauges. I have Johnsons' and Baers' books, but they don't say much about the long range guns, incl. smaller bores. I have the 1937 catalog and a repro I believe to be from the 1920"s. I am assuming the 20's and 16's with longer bbls.(30 or 32 in.) and heavier frames were of this type- I do not believe any of the Parkers with 3 in. chambers were so marked. Any info. would be appreciated. Terry

[Bruce Day]

Parker Bros brochure containing information about "the long range small bore":

"The Small Bore Shot Gun"

They are not necessarily larger than standard frame for the gauge. All other information I am aware of about these guns is modern, about a particular gun and not comprehensive. There is information on this forum occasionally and an occasional story about one in the PP's. The above Parker brochure is the only Parker publication I know about the subject and is interesting for its tables and recommendations about loads and effective ranges. Parker called any of them with 30" or 32" barrels "long range". The brochure covers 16,20 and 28 gauges.

Good luck, its an interesting subject.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Some of the later Parker 3 inch guns were marked with chamber length, at least in the 10 gauge and 12 gauge types. I'd be interested to know if any of the long chamber smallbore stuff was as well.

A friend of mine is deep in some research into the early shells for these guns. He's out in California where one of the big suppliers (Selby) was located and has some really interesting pieces of ammo in his collection. There's a ton about smallbore duck guns in a publication called "Western Field" which he had luck finding on micro film or fische at one of the university libraries in California.



Destry

[Bill Murphy]

Long barrel 20 gauge Parkers were made in frame sizes 0, 1, 1 1/2, 2, and 3. I was not aware of the #3 frame variation until a California auction several years ago where an assortment of large frame heavy twenties was offered. There was at least one twenty in that collection that weighed about nine pounds. I would like to own that catalog today, because all of the guns were listed by serial number. It would be an interesting research project to examine the orders for those guns. My old #2 frame 32" twenty was ordered at 8 pounds with chambers for 3" shells with no mention of frame size in the order. It is #153,333 and I would like to have it back. My #3 frame 16 was ordered at 8 3/4 pounds if I remember correctly.

[Jay Gardner]

I have seen a very nice, well restored, 20 VHE with 32" barrels, straight stock and Silvers pad built on a #1 frame that probably dates to the early 30's. At what point did Parker start chambering 20's in 3" as opposed to 2-7/8"?

[Dave Noreen]

Generally speaking Parker Bros. policy was to hold the chamber about 1/8 inch shorter then the intended shell. So, by Parker Bros. standards a 2 7/8 inch chamber was intended for 3-inch shells. On the other hand, Parker Bros. was well known for doing what the customer ordered, so very likely if the customer specified "3-inch chambers" that is what he/she got; but if the customer specified "chamber for 2 7/8 inch shell" the Brothers P. would provide a 2 3/4 inch chamber.

Back in those pre WW-I days 20-gauge paper shells were available in 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths. Normally, the factory loaded longer shells of those days carried more and better wadding for a better gas seal, not a heavier payload. The first instance of a heavier payload I've found is around the 1912/13 time frame when factory loaded 3-inch 20-gauge shells got a slightly heavier powder charge -- 2 1/2 drams equiv. and 7/8 ounces of shot. The "standard" 20-gauge load then was 2 1/4 drams equiv. and 7/8 ounce of shot. These were the shells for the famous Widgeon Duck Club Parker Bros. guns and the J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co. 3-inch 20-gauge pump.

This first year 2-frame GH-Grade heavy 12-gauge was back to Meriden some time after 1918 and got a set of 32-inch long Vulcan Steel, 3-inch chambered 20-gauge barrels. This gun weighs 8 pounds 4.5 ounces with the 20-gauge barrels in place.

There is a lot of information on "long range" smallbores in Western Field magazine in a long running series by Edwin Hedderly, the editor, in the 1911/12 time frame. Our own Kevin McCormack was well into transcribing Hedderly's series with an eye to publishing, but I guess he must have too many vintage cases to repair. Hedderly got 32-inch 16- and 20-gauge A1-Specials in excahnge for six months of Parker Bros. advertising in the magazine. He also had 32-inch DHE 20- and 28-gauges.

[Drew Hause]

The first 'long range' 20?

Dec. 21, 1895
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1895/VOL_26_NO_13/SL2613012.pdf

Lieutenant A. W. Du Bray, of Dayton, Ky.. shooting at Shreveport, La., on November 28 as the guest of Mr. Samuel Enders, and using a 20-gauge Parker gun, made an excellent bag of 77 ducks, 45 of them being mallards, 25 teals and the rest pintails and wood ducks. He writes his friends, regarding the outing, that it was one of the finest day's sport he ever enjoyed.

[Bill Murphy]

Drew, Capt. DuBray was probably not using a "long range" Parker 20 if they shot that many ducks. By the way, all of the known smallbore Parker long barrel guns ordered by sportswriter Edwin Hedderly were chambered at 2 1/2". Three inch shells go way back, but not all shooters of long barrelled guns used them.

[Bill Murphy]

Around 1913 or 1914, The Small Bore Shot Gun pamphlet put out by Parker Brothers stated that the 2 3/4 dram, 7/8 ounce load was tested for velocity, but "It is not recommended by us, or loaded by the loading companies." However, the order for 20 gauge #149,975 states that the buyer wished to have the gun patterned with one ounce of #6 and three full drams of powder in three inch shells. I assume that my old 20 gauge #153,333 was patterned and ordered for the same shells. Hedderly's old 20 gauge A-1 Special 32" gun was ordered to be chambered 2 3/8". Hedderly's 16 gauge A-1 Special 32" gun was chambered at 2 7/16".

[Kevin McCormack]

Hang in there, guys; the Hedderly Papers Project is not dead, just sidetracked. I am ready to bust the move shortly on a new computer dedicated to finishing this and the other "Malbec-induced coma" projects, including compilation and assembly of the voluminous files on Railbirdiana I have accumulated over the years. I have just about everything on both topics...too many shows and shoots...so little time. (BTW-when did I have time to work? Dealing with all this stuff is like running a dairy farm - its not that there's too much work; its just that it never stops!

[Austin W Hogan]

Kevin; I remember my first meeting with you and your brother, and our discussion of Hedderly. Glad to see you are back at it

Best Austin

[Bill Murphy]

I can't wait for the Hedderly project to come to print. Get busy, Kevin. Maybe you could give us a little teaser, like the picture of Edwin, his duck boat, and the 32" 16 gauge.

[Kevin McCormack]

In addition to a new computer, a new digital camera is in the offing budget for 2010 - I maxed out my great original Sony Digicam while climbing up an aluminum ladder into the "gunloft/manroom" of a close friend to shoot some hot wannabe ("no record") Hedderly Parkers - shattered the LED image screen against the ladder sidebar. All this frivolous drivel-posting of days gone by is coming to run into real money these days!!!

But to satisfy Eightbore and Researcher's lust for a "Hedderly Fix", I can say that the original ELH 16 ga. 32" A-1 Special was last seen in the Salt Lake City UT area in NRA poor condition, and that the "One That Got Away" 20 ga. 32" A-1 S disappeared sometime before WW Twice, reportedly to Europe, "maybe' to have barrels repaired or (more likely) replaced by Krupp after having been "tensile-strength embarassed" (read bulged) by one of His Nibbs hot long-range smallbore duck loads. This particular gun was "lost" and never seen again. My guess is that it is sitting unaltered in a barn somewhere in Bavaria doing "house gun" duty on pigeons, or that it was correctly fit with new Krupp barrels and enjoys its new life as an "under the radar" gun, used on snipe in the flooded lowlands of Holland and taking teal and wooducks as the first frost approaches off the coast of Peenemunde. Don't laugh - stranger things have happened - Jack Skeuse, father of the Parker Repro, told me he met an English gentleman on a grouse moor in northern Scotland who was shooting a well-worn 12 ga. A-1 Special in the early 1970s. According to the gentleman, the gun had been ordered by one of the McIlhenny(sp?) family of LA (originators and patenters of Tabasco Sauce). Go figure!

[Christopher Lien]

Very unusual to see KBM stroll'n the halls this late at night wax'n Hedderly nostalgic... The dbl-gun itch never sleeps... Great Stuff!!!:)

Best, CSL
__________________________________________

[Bill Murphy]

Yeah, Chris, since his Browning awakening, it is hard to get the Redhead to talk Parkers. However, it is rumored that Field and Stream has offered him the big buck for the Hedderly saga.