Chamber length?

[Nicholas Sarro]

I have a 1879 10 gauge lifter (Parker Bros.). I want to know the chamber length so I stuck a piece of metal down the breach & felt for the ridge & measured it, 2 11/16 inches. Could this be right? It seems kind of short. I plan on buying shells from RST made for the older guns & want to make sure they will fit.

[Rick Losey]

that would be correct for a British 10 of that period, I expect you improvised chamber gauge could be a little off, in a Parker 2 7/8 would be the norm.

[Dave Noreen]

That early it most likely was chambered for the 2 5/8 inch 10-gauge brass shells. From the 1880 UMC catalogue --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Rem-UMC/1880UMCCatalogue_zpsf1b8b662.png

Note they offered brass shells No. 10, to 2 5/8 inches, for .12, .15 or .16 1/2 each depending on primer, while brass No. 10, extra long, to 3 inches, were .15, .18, or .19 1/2 each.

From the 1887 UMC catalogue --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Rem-UMC/4-gauge1887brass_zps746d500a.png

The 10-gauge 2 5/8 inch brass shell was pretty much the "standard" 10-gauge shell during the 1880s but with factory loaded paper shells and smokeless powder loaded shells coming on strong in the 1890s, the 2 7/8 inch seemed to win out as the "standard" 10-gauge length for loaded shells. But 2 5/8 inch NPEs both brass and paper were offered well into the 1900s. Rem - UMC was still offering brass 10-gauge 2 5/8 inch NPEs after The Great War.

[Nicholas Sarro]

Thanks guys. I sent an email to RST Shells & maybe they have 2 5/8 .

[Nicholas Sarro]

Heard back from Julie at RST Shells. She suggested I get a more knowledgeable person measure the chamber & that it most likely is 2 5/8" . They'll be starting a production run of that size soon if that's the size I need.

[John Campbell]

She suggested I get a more knowledgeable person measure the chamber & that it most likely is 2 5/8" ...

Why don't you take it over to G&H in NJ and have them check the chambers professionally. Charge will be minimal if any. Then you'll know what the truth is.

[Nicholas Sarro]

I've heard too many horror stories about New Yorkers traveling to NJ & getting their lawfully owned guns confiscated. Even deer hunting bolt action rifles. The guys I'm meeting up with this Friday will have some sample shells for me to try on for size.

[John Dallas]

Remember that shell length is the length of a fired cartridge, not an unfired one. For example, an unfired 3" shell will fit easily in a 2 3/4" chambered gun

[Rick Losey]

right - except for brass hulls of course

the only way to get the right answer is with a correct chamber gauge

[Nicholas Sarro]

So what you're saying is that even an unfired shell measuring 2 5/8' is too long for a 2 5/8" chamber? How much of the shell is used in the crimping?

[Rick Losey]

So what you're saying is that even an unfired shell measuring 2 5/8' is too long for a 2 5/8" chamber? How much of the shell is used in the crimping?

no- he is saying-for example - an unfired 2 3/4 12 gauge shell will fit in a 2 5/8 chamber.

the crimped portion of the shell has to fit within the chamber when it has been fired - otherwise it opens into the forcing cone and there can be pressure implications

a 2 5/8 shell is 2 5/8 AFTER firing (or brand new before being loaded the first time)

[Nicholas Sarro]

Thanks for the clarification.

[Bill Jolliff]

A simple, easy to make and accurate chamber gauge:

Using a fired empty hull, preferrably plastic, squarely cut the crimped end off and make another square cut near the metal base. Clean off the cut edges. Measure the length. This is your gauge.

Insert the gauge into the empty chamber until it stops at the forcing cone. Use a small scale to see how deep the gauge is and add that depth to the length of the gauge and you have the chamber length.

Make for other gauges as needed.

I might add that I have a friends 10 gauge underlifter and it has 2 3/4 inch chambers. A "PARKER BROS. WEST MERIDEN, CT 10 A" 2 3/4" brass shell fits nicely but the more common "PARKER BROS. MERIDEN, CT 10 A" 2 7/8" stops 1/8" short of going all the way in.

Hope this helps.

Bill Jolliff

[John Dallas]

Someone (forgotten who) described taking a small machinist's rule (squared end forward) and inserting it into the chamber, touching the chamber wall, with good light coming from the muzzle end. When the rule begins to enter the forcing cone, the side of the rule will begin to separate from the chamber wall. When it does, look at the measurement on the rule. Bingo!

[Steve Havener]

So what you're saying is that even an unfired shell measuring 2 5/8' is too long for a 2 5/8" chamber? How much of the shell is used in the crimping?

Not necessarily. Parker routinely cut their chambers 1/8th inch short to achieve a better gas seal for the fiber wads used in period ammunition so a chamber that measures 2 3/4 inches would be appropriate for use with 2 7/8th inch shells.

[Dave Noreen]

Not necessarily. Parker routinely cut their chambers 1/8th inch short to achieve a better gas seal for the fiber wads used in period ammunition so a chamber that measures 2 3/4 inches would be appropriate for use with 2 7/8th inch shells.

That is true for guns chambered for paper shells. Guns chambered for the B brass shells should have a chamber exactly the length of the brass shell.

[Nicholas Sarro]

How were the brass shells closed? I doubt they were crimped.

[Rick Losey]

water glass (sodium silicate)

Used as a glue around the edge of the over shot card

[Dave Noreen]

Modern military brass shells are slightly rolled over the edge of the over-shot wad --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Winchester/Military00BuckWinchestersleftRemingtonright_zps63e 526ba.jpg

but 120 years ago our Nimrods sat around duck camp in the evening reloading their brass shells and sealing the over-shot wad with waterglass, like this W.R.A. Co. No. 12 RIVAL --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Winchester/WRACoNo12RIVAL_zpsc41b8e4c.jpg

[Nicholas Sarro]

Well today I fired my 10 ga Parker for the 1st time. It was also my 1st time firing any 10 ga. I want to thank my friend John for making it possible. Now the long journey of restoration begins.