Early 3 1/2" Ten Factory Original

[Bill Murphy]

Chuck is doing a letter for me on a 1903 NH Grade ten gauge #6 frame Parker that was factory ordered with 3 1/2" chambers. Dave Noreen has provided information that Western Cartridge first introducted the modern mag ten ammunition in 1932. I realize that extra long empty shells were available for handloaders way back into the 1800's, but this will be the first Parker order I have seen for a 3 1/2" ten gauge. I have another #6 frame ten gauge with 3 1/2" chambers, but I have no provenance on its originality. That one was rebarrelled in Vulcan Steel from an eight gauge gun. Maybe Dave or someone else has some information about 3 1/2" ten gauge ammunition in the era of my gun, 1903.

[charlie cleveland]

bill this sure is a interesting gun you have found i hope somethings turns up for you on this gun. i m sure the fellow who ordered this gun with these long chambers was shooting heavier loads than the factory was loading in the 2 7/8 shells..i convinced myself that some foks were shooting handloaded shells that were close to magnum standards of today..i have a 3 frame eh gun with those 7 lbs 10ounce barrels that are 3 1/2 chambers but do not know if it was factory long chambers...good luck on the hunt for answers on this gun...charlie

[Dave Noreen]

Are you sure the gun is chambered for 3 1/2 inch shells? The longest 10-gauge NPEs I've found offered back in those days was 3 1/4 inch, but most were not offered over 3-inch. In 1901 the UMC EXPERT NPE for bulk smokeless powder was offered up to 3 1/4 inch in 10-gauge --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Rem-UMC/UMCEXPERTNPEs1901_zps08d0a505.png

and the UMC UNION NPE for black powder --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Rem-UMC/UMCUNIONNPEs1901_zps9b51fb7f.png

As were their BEST quality brass shells --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Rem-UMC/4-gauge1887brass_zps746d500a.png

By 1910 none of the 10-gauge NPEs for smokeless powders were offered longer than 2 7/8 inch, with only the paper and brass NPEs for black powder offered in the 3 and 3 1/4 inch lengths.

[Bill Murphy]

Dave, the order specifies 3 1/2" chambers. Charlie, do you have a letter on your big gun yet? My Vulcan Steel ten has wall thickness no thinner then .100. If my new gun has .100 wall thickness, I will be shooting modern 3 1/2" mag ten lead shells in it. The bores are shiny, so I will measure to see if the thickness is there. The barrels are marked 8-1 if I recall.

[charlie cleveland]

i have no letter on this gun it seems every gun i trade for the books are lost on them... i have measured them they are 3 1/2 and are at least as your gun as thick as .100 this gun could go to 8 ga if bored..i have already shot several modern 3 1/2 inch shells thru this gun and it is marked twist barrels that are 30 inches.iut has the little wiggly line across the end of the barrels i assume never cut.serial number is 69388 it is a ph modeltop lever opening gun.i wish they had a book for this gun..hope you find your answers... charlie

[charlie cleveland]

i look thru all my info on early shells and only shell in paper i found were the 3 1/4 inch but i have seen brass shells of before the 1900 s in 3 1/2 inch lentgh..maybe somebody was useing brass hulls in these old guns. maybe somebody was useing some of them old 6 inch length 10 ga paper hulls i see from time to time and were cutting them down to 3 1/2 inch length. charlie

[Bill Murphy]

Charlie, there is information on your gun in the PGCA records, probably the order book entry. You should request a letter on your interesting gun.

[charlie cleveland]

thanks bill will request for a letter.thank you. charlie

[Rich Anderson]

Bill what is the barrel length on that beast 34 or maybe 36? I know of a 36 inch 10ga but have no idea of the chamber length. The owner uses it for sporting clays:eek:

[Bill Murphy]

It's just a standard little 13 pound 32" gun. My #6 frame Vulcan Steel ten is a 34" gun.

[charlie cleveland]

boys she s a heavy weight at 13 lbs she should handle them 3 1/2 shells with no problem and not much kick i would say...my old gun only weighs 11 1/2 lbs and it dont kick much with the long shells...charlie

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

Bill: The letter on my quality 1 hammer 10 ga. With 34 inch barrels has 3 1/4 chambers and states that in the letter. Thomas

[charlie cleveland]

what type of steel in the 3 1/4 inch chambers gun s barrels...charlie

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

Charlie: If your referring to my gun it is laminated steel. Thomas

[charlie cleveland]

yes thomas it was your gun i was asking about thanks..charlie

[Bill Murphy]

Charlie, my gun will be home in a short time and I will weigh and measure.

[Dave Noreen]

my gun will be home in a short time and I will weigh and measure.

But, none of us will live long enough for Murphy to post a picture!!

[charlie cleveland]

it be looking forward to hear about bill s gun..to me these heavy weights are top notch..i just wonder what the heaviest parker ever weighed...charlie

[Bill Murphy]

Got the big #6 frame 10 gauge NH grade home today. The barrel weight marking is 8-1. The barrels must have been seriously struck, because the gun only weighs twelve pounds, zero ounces. It is a great old six frame with 3 1/2" chambers from the factory. I bought three ten gauge Parkers at the auction where I bought this one. A couple of days ago, my friend, Nicole, called me and said she had found some ammunition during her basement cleanup. There were the ubiquitous water soaked paper shells from the forties through the sixties. However, included in the find were three boxes of fresh Remington Express 2 7/8" plastic 1 5/8 ounce ten gauges in #4 shot size. One box for each of my new ten gauge Parkers. Lucky me.

[Rich Anderson]

I know someone who would think that was a great Sporting Clays gun:eek: I can see him breaking a crossing right to left with it at Hausmanns:rotf:

[Dean Romig]

Right Rich! I don't know how that skinny guy does it...... levitation I guess.

[Bill Murphy]

The gun will be at Hausemann's as a loaner in case anyone wants to try it out.

[Jeff Kuss]

My 6 frame 10 has 6 13 weight barrels and are 34" long. The chambers are 3".

[charlie cleveland]

jeff for a 6 frame gun those barrels are lite copared to 3 frame guns..glad you posted this..my 3 frame 10 ga 30 inch factory weigh in at 7 lb 10 ounce..3 1/2 inch chambers.. twist steel barrels...charlie

[Rich Anderson]

Right Rich! I don't know how that skinny guy does it...... levitation I guess.

It must be the Wheaties for breakfast.:rotf:

[Mark Ouellette]

Right Rich! I don't know how that skinny guy does it...... levitation I guess.

It must be the Wheaties for breakfast.:rotf:

Boys,

Parris Island in 77, The Basic School for Marine Officers (TBS) in 89, Persian Gulf in 91 aboard TRIPOLI, and a whole lot of practicing to be miserable has something to do with it. Swinging a 15 pound 8 gauge is nothing compared to the rigors of service.

Since you are not Marines perhaps if you watch this a hundred times something might sink into your Brain Housing Groups!
Such as Regiments Hand Down Forever
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM4Pobo9LAA&list=FLZPP-Ts-P7e7ShCehGyglZg&index=1

Mark

[Mark Conrad]

Motivation Ditch, Parris Island 1970. Only a Marine would know.

[George Lander]

Thanks for that inspiring video Mark. Marines have always been "First To Fight". Did your DI explain to you about the gators that infest the marshes that surround PI?

Best Regards, George

[Bill Murphy]

I watched the video and enjoyed it. However, the high point of the video was when the drill instructor came onto the bus to "greet" the busload of recruits. I haven't thought about that moment for 47 years. It may have been the high point of my military career. Nothing much scared me for the next 24 months as much as that DI who greeted us in November of 1967.

[Fred Preston]

My fireteam BARman was George (Possum) Brown, a 140 pound underground farmer from WBGVa. He could do wonders with that twenty pound rifle.

FMP, PI 2/'56

[Bill Murphy]

You have reminded me of our company M60 carrier who was not as high as my eyes. I should go back into my records to find his name. I think picking short guys to cart machine guns is part of military tradition.