Backyard Proof House

[Dave Fuller]

I have a new/old 10ga, 0 grade, twist-barrel, hammer gun (pictures posted on other threads) that I want to turkey hunt with. I grew up in a house where shooting a "damascus" gun was tantamount to Russian roulette. I don't harbor that view but I would like to "proof" my gun so to speak. I thought I'd use a long string and a safe seat behind the engine block of my Chevy. The gun is a 3 frame with meaty walls and 2-7/8" chambers. Very light pitting. Smith says should be fine with low pressure loads. Here are my questions:

1) Can I cram a 3-1/2" load in there and light it off a' la Sherman Bell (just for proofing not hunting).
2) Have others done this? Should I just bungie it to a tire?
3) What should I look for in the way of damage post-test? I have a bore mic and a wall-thickness gauge.
4) What do folks think of 2-7/8" RST #4 Hevi Shot as a turkey load?

Thank you in advance for your thoughts on these questions.

[C Roger Giles]

Dave;

You should consult with skinney ol Destry as he and one of his cronies from down home opperate a proof house and I think some sort of still as they need vast amounts of spirits to obtain a reliable and bone fide result.

Roger

[E Robert Fabian]

The problem I see with proofing with the 3 1/2" shell is you don't know what damage the shell has caused. I would load a few shells to the higher pressures in the reloading data and test with them.

[Dean Romig]

Dave - Why attempt to "damage" the gun with potential overloads?

As you describe it, the gun is a robust ol' gun chambered for 3" shells so I would suggest using the RST 2 7/8" loads but with #6 shot for turkey - with #6 you'll get a much denser pattern for those head and neck shots (which is the only shot that should be taken on a turkey anyway).

[James T. Kucaba]

Dave;

You should consult with skinney ol Destry as he and one of his cronies from down home operate a proof house and I think some sort of still as they need vast amounts of spirits to obtain a reliable and bone fide result.

Roger

I have it on good authority that Destry's Proof House is located in Lynchburg Tennessee ... Jack Daniel's Single Barrel ... 94 Proof !

Jim Kucaba ... AriZOOna Cactus Patch ... Email: JimKucaba@aol.com

[Ed Blake]

If you have miked the bores and measured wall thickness, and you are satisfied, shoot the RSTs. The only thing you'll accomplish by stuffing a big nitro load in there to "proof" it is potentially damaging the gun. I bet that thing has digested in the past more nitro loads than you will ever put through it.

[Dave Fuller]

Good points all, thanks. I guess I agree that overloading it may just cause damage and prove nothing... as would sending it out to Destry's still hideout for proofing. Just because it comes back with a 94 stamped on it really means nothing. My goal is to be comfortable with it just in case I get the odd chance at a Tom. I have enough trouble holding still and getting my gun steady without worrying about blowing my fingers off.

[George Blair]

Dave, buy some RST's, strap your 3 frame to a tire and have at it. Bet when you see it still in one piece the confidence will be there to hunt with it next season. I grew up in the same house you did when it comes to damascus guns. Now I have two 10 and three 12 Ga damascus Parkers and don't worry a bit about my fingers. Good luck, George

[Destry L. Hoffard]

The Proof House is located in my buddy Gerald's back yard shed down in Southern Illinois. We are currently not operating because he has "taken the cure" due to some domestic difficulties. I'm sure we will be back in operation come fishing season though.

Destry

[Richard Flanders]

Dave: Why would you put a 3-1/2" shell in it? Are the chambers that long? I agree with others; just shoot it with moderate loads and don't worry about your fingers.

[Dave Fuller]

When I put a chamber gauge in it, the gun measures exactly 2-7/8" but a 3-1/2" turkey load will drop right in. I figured if it can handle a high pressure load, it can surely handle an RST shorty.

Rich - Since Desrty's proof house seems to be temporarily shut down, maybe I can ship it up to you for proofing... where there's plenty of room for conducting such experiments.

[Richard Flanders]

The load may drop in but when the crimped part extends it will go way way into the forcing cones and overpressure the chambers. The chamber length is for the fired shell length... I don't think you want to do that. Feel free to send it up though..... I'd get it back to you in a year or two... I'm an astute student of the "Dunkle school of gun borrowing" and could use some practice.....

[scott kittredge]

The load may drop in but when the crimped part extends it will go way way into the forcing cones and overpressure the chambers. The chamber length is for the fired shell length... I don't think you want to do that. Feel free to send it up though..... I'd get it back to you in a year or two... I'm an astute student of the "Dunkle school of gun borrowing" and could use some practice.....

"Dunkle's school of gun borrowing" :rotf: i like that :corn: scott

[Dave Suponski]

How do you enroll in said school?

[Dean Romig]

You'll get no go ahead from me!

And if you choose to go through with it you'll get what you deserve!

[scott kittredge]

hi john old buddy :shock:

[Chuck Heald]

I have a new/old 10ga, 0 grade, twist-barrel, hammer gun (pictures posted on other threads) that I want to turkey hunt with. I grew up in a house where shooting a "damascus" gun was tantamount to Russian roulette. I don't harbor that view but I would like to "proof" my gun so to speak. I thought I'd use a long string and a safe seat behind the engine block of my Chevy. The gun is a 3 frame with meaty walls and 2-7/8" chambers. Very light pitting. Smith says should be fine with low pressure loads. Here are my questions:

1) Can I cram a 3-1/2" load in there and light it off a' la Sherman Bell (just for proofing not hunting).
2) Have others done this? Should I just bungie it to a tire?
3) What should I look for in the way of damage post-test? I have a bore mic and a wall-thickness gauge.
4) What do folks think of 2-7/8" RST #4 Hevi Shot as a turkey load?

Thank you in advance for your thoughts on these questions.

1) Can you? Yup! Got flak jacket?
2) Probably. Don't bother with the bungee, just dig a hole and burry it.
3) Look for cratoring (see ABOVE)
4) Sounds like it should work great in your next gun.

[Dean Romig]

:biglaugh:

[Dave Fuller]

Thanks Chuck... very helpful

[Chuck Heald]

Sorry Dave.
Ill try to do better.

A high pressure load, even a proper proof load, without the knowledge of the proofhouses, is risky and could be catastrophic. I don't believe, and I'm sure I have company, that what you propose is reasonable, safe, or productive for your needs. I and others are recommending you seek a qualified person to assess the gun instead. If you aren't comfortable with that course, sending the gun to a proofhouse in Europe is an alternative.

[Mike Poindexter]

Back before RST and the Sherman Bell tests, Ross Seyfried wrote about using 7625 for low pressure reloads in damascus and twist barrels. He advised to do a thorough visual inspection for any flaws or alterations, then said to stuff a couple of Win AA loads in, rest the butt in an old tire on the ground, with the barrels lying on top, tie a string to the trigger, and back up about 50 feet and let her rip. The AA's, he said, developed only about 10,500 psi which was plenty enough proof for him. I tried it on an old pair of Ithaca twist barrels with pristine bores, and they "passed" the proof. Notice I didnt stuff 3 inch 1 7/8 oz 2's in it. Have fun!

[Kurt Densmore]

Head to a couple of gun shows and picke up a box of nitro 2 7/8 inch loads and use them to proof it. If you can't find any then there are a few of us that could send you a couple for proofing. If there are no major flaws with the bbls then the vintage or RST shells are just the ticket. There is a sherman bell loading manual floating around and there is short 10ga manual that Gunnerman Books sells.......all the loads use IMR 7625 in that manual Gunnerman manual. There are several of us using sherman bell loads. I think I am using his #75 load for target... it is a 1 1/8oz load at about 5500 psi and crushes the clays. I shot a deer several years ago with an old 2 7/8" Remington Express 0 Buck. Used a 3 frame Parker DH 10. The old Remington shells seem to shoot consistently but I have had problems with some of the old Winchesters. The primer doesn't seem to crush and may just have gone bad.

Good luck and enjoy......it is a lot of fun (and satisfying) shooting turkeys with the old guns.

Kurt

[Dave Fuller]

Thanks Kurt - I will look for an older box of short 10's, good idea. I have to say the gun shows here are nothing but black guns, beef jerkey, and World War II books though. I have some RSTs, I would just feel better if I knew it would handle something a little stronger than I'd be shooting. I reload 12s and 28s, looks like I may have to shop for a 10ga reloader too...

[Harry Collins]

Dave,

If you are reloading low pressure 12 gauge shells they can be shot through the 10 gauge with www.gaugemate.com These are a lot of fun, however you can not reload a hull once it has been used in the GaugeMate. I just use hulls that are at the end of their tether.

Harry

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Kurt,

What gun shows do you go to where you find them 2 7/8 10 gauge shells? Lemme know, I wanna come along, my stock is minimal at best. *wink*


Destry

[Bill Murphy]

Destry, make your best attempt to outlive me and you will be in hog's heaven. I wonder what happened to Dave Noreen's stash of short tens? He tried for a long time to find someone to take them off his hands. I'm looking for a Parker to shoot my 3 1/2" steel shells in. I've about had it with carrying this AYA around. I have a good offer on it and would like to see it gone. Unfortunately, it's the only gun that I can shoot my steel in.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Bill,

I've asked Dave about those shells and apparently he's sold them finally. I sure wish I'd have known cause I'd have bought every box.

A Parker to shoot magnum steel in might be a tough one to find. Tell you what, just trade me that #6 frame and I'll give you my magnum for it and some old gun friendly shells to boot.


DLH

[Kurt Densmore]

I could be mistaken but I was thinking that you had a couple boxes on the table at the antique arms show.....maybe they were 3 1/2".... I find the short ones occasionally, but not in large quantity of course.



Kurt,

What gun shows do you go to where you find them 2 7/8 10 gauge shells? Lemme know, I wanna come along, my stock is minimal at best. *wink*


Destry

[Richard Flanders]

Nice find! You must have beat me to those at the show Kurt.... they would never have made it past me had I seen them! I have a pretty good stock now thanks to a trade I made with Destry..

Bill: I cut a 3-1/2 steel 10ga open recently because I have no use for them and the pellets felt like they were made of aluminum. Can't imagine how they could possibly kill out past 25 yds. Way too light for me. I had no idea steel felt that light. You might as well load up Crosman BB's...

[Dave Fuller]

Rich you are correct, steel is light. Since simple Newtonian Physics dictate that Force = Mass X Acceleration, denser shot simply delivers more force to the target assuming equal muzzle velocity. Ergo, I pay $4 per round for Bismuth when duck hunting. The extra $2 is nothing in the grand scheme of things, I should be so lucky as to shoot more $4 rounds. The physics are the physics, if you want to discuss hunting economics I will refer you to my wife who seems to be able to think more clearly on the subject.

[Dean Romig]

Hunting economics??? Over the years, all things considered, my venison costs about $311.19/lb.

[John Dallas]

"Hunting economics?" Sorta like "military Intelligence"?

[Kevin McCormack]

I "proofed" some of Morris Baker's new RST 3 1/2 dram 1 1/4oz. "Super Velocity Competition" pigeon loads yesterday and I can tell you they are indeed "stout"! With about as much recoil out of my heaviest guns (BHE #2 frame & Pointer Grade Superposed; both over 8lbs.) as I care to handle! I'm scared to grade up to his 3 3/4 dram loads; I can't imagine they're necessary after I saw what the 3 1/2s did to the flyers yesterday.

Also "proofed" my recently acquired 1929 Browning A-5 with a couple of magazinefulls of 3 1/4 dram 1-oz. Winchester "promotional" loads (you know, the ones with the tinfoil heads). After I slicked up the magazine tube with a little lube, she ran on like a Thompson. Gotta love 'em!

[C Roger Giles]

Kevin was there any dirty residue from thos slick tubed Winchesters ?

I shoot clay birds with a bunch of farmers the day after Thanksgiving and the farmers being extra conservative buy the cheepest ammo, all manufactors are represented and as the afternoon wears on we have a rash of gun malfunctions ala crummy ammo. About half of them have their Springfields, Nobels, and some I never heard of quit working until a through cleaning is performed.

Quite a circus but done in complete safety. I can not wait till next years rattle battle.







s

[Kevin McCormack]

Yeah, Rog - they burn real filthy - lots of unburned powder residue in the barrel and around the bolt/barrel interface - a sure sign of a too-fast-burning powder trying to propel a substantial load. We've had a number of "Go-To-Hell" shoots (no classes, no gauge or load restrictions, no prohibitions on shot loads other than #7 shot is the max allowed on our IWLA range), where some of the more robust ejection systems on the autos as well as some O/Us have actually ripped the tinfoil head off these sub-El Cheapo loads. Not a pretty sight and the aftermath sometimes requires tools and an even temper.

[tom tutwiler]

Jumping here late I know. I've got 5 boxes of the RST 2 7/8 1 1/4 oz lead loads I picked up somewhere in my wanderings. Any idea of pressure's associated with those particular shells?


And yes, I was thinking turkey's.

http://pic60.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1725/11830643/21873576/362800696.jpg

http://pic60.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1725/11830643/21873576/362800693.jpg

Update, I called RST and asked. If anyone wants to know, those particular shells are loaded at 6,500 PSI. Sounds like they would be gentle indeed on a old girl.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Those shells are absolute murder on anything that walks, crawls, or flies. I've used them quite a bit, all I can say is excellent.

Destry