Something To Play With

[Gary Laudermilch]

A Parker hammer gun is going up for sale shortly and I was thinking about trying to purchase it. Now, I am not a collector but this gun, when compared to the grade pictures on the home page appears to be of a higher grade and the engraving looks pretty sharp. I have a few poor photos and am hoping some of you might weigh in with your thoughts. Worth pursuing? What grade might it be? And the big one - how much should a neophyte invest in such a piece?

Your expertise and comment is appreciated.

[David Dwyer]

Gary
Nice find and a very nice underlever. That looks like an $250 or A grade gun in pretty decent condition. The stock does not bother me that much as the receiver is in good shape. The underlevers are less popular than the top levers but I personally prefer them. I hope the bore is in as good condition as the receiver?. Value??? If all original and the bore is unpitted- $5-8,000 JMHO
David

[Robin Lewis]

Well, it looks like an A grade. It might be a good project gun. How are the barrels? What length are they? Any dents? How are the bores? The barrels look to be off face and the stock is in tough shape but those can be fixed. If all the wood is under the stock, it might be able to be fixed but if there are missing chunks it would need restocked (read more expensive).

It will not be cheap to fix it up but it would be a nice gun when done. Assuming the bores are in good shape its fixable.

[Rick Losey]

as stated above- the barrel's condition is critical, especially the bores

the wood may well need to be replaced- I'll assume the brass was not added for decoration, and there is serious damage under there. Although there are folks that can do wonders with broken stocks, so add that cost to the project,

but fixed up- wow- what a gun that will be

[charlie cleveland]

good find and it looks good even with the brass patch...the worth is how much you would be willing to spend...charlie

[Gary Laudermilch]

Thanks for confirming it is a high grade Parker lifter. I have not been able to look at the gun but will be able to in a few weeks. I know from posts on this forum that there certainly are some stock magicians out there but will have to look closer. I am hoping that the barrels are as good as the action but only close inspection will tell. I thought it might be an A grade but was not sure. You guys have given me enough to pursue it a bit further. How much help would knowing the serial number on a gun this old? Do we have records that far back?

[Brian Dudley]

Is there an asking price on the gun?

[Rick Losey]

The serial number would be a big help for you

If it is in the book or records available you would know what the barrels should measure

[Gary Laudermilch]

Brian, no asking price as it will be auctioned. Just trying to be as informed as possible prior to attending the auction.

[Dave Suponski]

Gary, A wonderful gun that is in need of some serious work. I would be very concerned with it as the frame is cracked at the point where the water table meets the breech face. As seen in the second and last photo.

[Rick Losey]

good eye Dave

the serial number is not in the book and does not come up as having info available for a letter

[Chuck Bishop]

Good eye Dave. I think the S/N reads 13334 on the tag. If that's the case, we have no records for this gun. The crack at the breach face is a major problem. Can this be repaired? Also, notice the curly cue at the bottom of the bolster. I don't remember seeing this on other similar grades.

[Dave Noreen]

Looks to these old eyes like the frame is cracked right at the angle.

[Bruce Day]

Take $6000 to $8000 , possibly more, to get this gun right, assuming that welding the crack can be done satisfactorily . The whole gun, from ownership to repair to restocking is a job for somebody who knows Parkers. A replacement barrel can be found, may have to sacrifice another gun.

However, a person would have a significant Parker when done and done right.

[Brian Dudley]

Looks like it is cracked on both sides. Yikes! More so on the right side. That is likely what might be causing the look of the barrels not being fully closed against the breech. Maybe they are down on the watertable, but the watery able is no longer square to the breech.

[Bruce Day]

sounds like the frame may not be salvageable but that decision should not be made without the gun in hand by someone who has done this type of work before. There are very few that I know of. Too bad to lose a high grade rare Parker.

I have see guns repaired that others said were not repairable.

[Gary Laudermilch]

I think you guys are correct about the frame crack. What a shame! I think I'll still take a look to verify. If that is the case, I'll let someone else tackle bringing this old girl back to life. Thanks a bunch for looking.

[Mike Koneski]

Good catch there Dave! I wouldn't have noticed the crack if you hadn't pointed it out. Too bad, as I love shooting the underlifters. Hate to see them scrapped but that may be fixed with someone with skills. For me, I like the underlifters more than the top lever hammer guns. Gary, IF you can have that repaired, GO FOR IT!!

[tom leshinsky]

good eyes Dave. I bet most of us missed that.

[David Noble]

Gary, has the gun been auctioned yet? If so, what did it bring?

If it has not been sold yet and you're not interested in it, could you post the name of the auction house so we can follow the sale of this fine but unfortunate gun?

Thanks, David

[Gary Laudermilch]

The gun will be sold this Sunday. I would not say I'm not interested - depends on the condition. I'll let you know what it sells for.

[Jim DiSpagno]

Posting the name and where-abouts of an auction where you are not the consignee is against the unwritten rules. Please Moderators, confirm Thanks

[David Noble]

Since when is posting the NAME of an auction house against the "UNWRITTEN RULES"?
Seriously Jim? Moderators please do clarify the unwritten rules for us.

[Mark Ouellette]

An auction of a specific gun such as this may be posted in the Member's Off Topic section. This will give any interested PGCA member an advantage over non-members.

Announcing that an auction will have many Parkers may be listed in the public forums.

The difference is that a thread on a specific gun creates interest.

Mark

[David Noble]

Thank you Mark for the clarification. I generally browse the forums using the "New Posts" method and don't pay much attention to which forum the post is in.
I guess I somehow feel we all, PGCA members and forum members alike, all share in the interests of Parker Bros shotguns and spreading the knowledge about them and generally do not think of my PGCA membership as a way to get an advantage over non members.

[Mark Ouellette]

David,

PGCA membership has its advantages. All are welcome to use the forums but only PGCA members may buy and sell using these forums. Substantial information about a Parker for sale is a direct sale aid and may only be listed in the members For Sale or Off Topic forums.

Mark

[Bill Murphy]

David, I think you will find a lot of disagreement with your opinion of the correctness of the membership advantage. I pay for this advantage with my membership dues, and the advantage is the same as reading the "For Sale" ads in the Parker Pages, which only members receive.

[Dean Romig]

"Advantage" may not be the word to use but I think better is the word "privilege" to describe the benefit of being able to buy or sell guns on the PGCA Forum where others ("forum associates" and "visitors") can't access these Members Only pages.

[Bill Murphy]

OK, Sunday has come and gone. What did the gun sell for and what auction house sold it? Thanks.

[Dean Freeman]

OK, Sunday has come and gone. What did the gun sell for and what auction house sold it? Thanks.

I think it's this coming Sunday.

On the same note, there's an auction in Gettysburg PA this week via Auction Zip. Some very nice doubles including 20ga DHE and VHE, SBT, and others. Lots of eye candy. Anybody got a few grand they'll loan me?
Here's a link...

http://www.auctionzip.com/cgi-bin/auctionview.cgi?lid=2243317&kwd=Parker%20shotgun&zip=22815&category=0

[Gary Laudermilch]

Dean is correct. The auction is this Sunday, Oct. 26 with a preview Sat. afternoon. It is grouse season and I usually don't do anything but hunt this time of year but I am making an exception this time. Plan to take a look Saturday. Not many high quality shotguns on the auction, mostly rifles. So, the interest may be low. We'll see.

[Chuck Bishop]

Looks like a Sunday drive for me!

[Marc Retallack]

Gary,

Are you getting in to many birds? I'm heading for Potter Monday morning. I only started hunting Potter for grouse in the last couple years. Last season, my scouting over the previous years really started to pay off. I'm still learning the area but I am really looking forward to next week.

Best of the luck at the sale... Hope Chuck doesn't outbid you:whistle:

Marcus

[Gary Laudermilch]

Marc, so far the birds have been hard to find but there is an abundance of food and cover. It will get better later, I hope.

Chuck, I heard we are in for a noreaster on Sunday with a foot of snow predicted! Might be a tough drive.

[Marc Retallack]

Thanks Gary

[Gary Laudermilch]

Ok, guys I took a look at this Parker lifter. I don't know quite where to begin but you can bet your bottom dollar that this was a high grade Parker. What I saw and keep in mind that I am not very knowledable about these older guns:

The action is beautiful and in very good shape except for the cracks on both sides. It is a square frame, ie no radius where the water table meets the breech face. I took a dental pick along to see if I could detect how deep the crack was. I was unable to detect a crack on the inside in the locking bolt slot. The barrels seem to lock up very nicely, actually much better than I expected. However, it is severly off face probably due to the crack and being out of square. That is the big question. Can it be repaired?

The butt stock is pretty rough. The repair patch is only on one side so you can see the break on the other. It looks to be pretty much straight across rather than running with the grain. The reinforced side is definitely missing some wood especially where the lock plate abutts and the plate has been inlet into the wood. Who knows what is under the repair plate. The skeleton butt plate is there. The wood is of high quality - very nice figure.

The forend is quite good with a lever latch and fits quite well.

All serial numbers match. There is a large U on the water table with another set of 3 digit numbers that do not match the serial number. The barrel lug has a large 2 with a smaller 0 above it, presumably indicating a 2 size frame.

The barrels measure just a smidge over 27 inches. The barrels are not touching but are no further apart than my uncut V grade. The keels are quite obvious and when I scratched them appear to be brass. I am kind of thinking they are original length. There is some outside rust and relatively minor pitting and mostly near the muzzle end. The bores look quite good. Frosting in the first one third and one obvious pit in each about mid way but do not look to be too bad. Nice looking damascus fine pattern under the forend.

I saw much more than I can explain here. I'm going to the auction and we'll see where the bidding goes. It would be a shame to give up on this grand old girl.

[edgarspencer]

However, it is severly off face probably due to the crack and being out of square. That is the big question. Can it be repaired.

Gary, I'm reasonably sure this gun is a Two Hundred Fifty Dollar Grade, and while you haven't said, the SN is likely well below the 4000 range.
This frame crack in the early dollar grade lifters is not at all uncommon, and has likely been seen, repaired, and returned, with a radius intersection, by better gunsmiths. In my opinion, this should in no way scare off a serious collector. The investment will not be an inconsequential amount, but the gun warrants it, and it will be money well spent.
The breech face to water table is never truly square. If it were, the gun won't open. The longer the water table, the closer to 90 degrees they get, and vice verse.
Without a research letter, you won't know for certain what the original barrel length was.
A very beautiful Grade 3, 12ga. Lifter followed me home today, and I have long been a lover of shooting these beautifully balanced guns

[Gary Laudermilch]

Thanks of the comment Edgar. The serial number is 13334. I intend to see what I can do.

[edgarspencer]

Gary, I'm reasonably sure this gun is a Two Hundred Fifty Dollar Grade, and while you haven't said, the SN is likely well below the 4000 range.

This was supposed to say 14000 range, but cat hair and graham cracker crumbs occasionally interfere with the 1 key, actually a bunch of the keys in the top left.

The SN of the subject gun is right about where I expected. There was some over lap between the early frame, without the reinforcing rib and sharp corner, and the improved one. See TPS, Page 102, and pictures, page 104. There were many other changes in addition to this one, but it was all in the high 13K to 16 K range.

[todd allen]

I'm not a gunsmith, but just thinking this repair through, this is how I envision it going;
(After taking carefull measurements of the standing breech to water table angle) It would be necessary to chase the cut, with a cutting wheel to a little bit beyond the depth of the crack. Tig weld crack, re-cut affected engraving, and then refinish.
If the standing breech angle had been opened by the crack, a jig would be necessary to close the angle a bit.
If the gun could be had for the right price, and I had the budget, I would not be afraid of this project.

[Gary Laudermilch]

The auction has come and gone. This Parker sold for $1100 and not to me. There were only two of us bidding and I stopped at 1k considering what it was likely to cost to make the necessary repairs. No telling how far the other bidder would have gone.

[todd allen]

If it is going to be restored, it would be interesting to track the progress.

[todd allen]

BTW, does anyone know what this gun would be worth after a proper restoration?

[Dean Romig]

We have seen Brad Bachelder's restoration work on Gary Carmicheal's high-grade hammer guns. Such a gun would have significant collector's value. What would someone pay if he had the desire to own such a gun and if his funds were sufficient to win an auction on such a gun.

[Gary Laudermilch]

The guy that won the bid on this gun was on the far opposite side of the room from me and I could not see him. I tried to track him down to see what his intentions were but was not able to locate him. A shame because I would have loved to chat with him.