The Mighty 10 Bore from Forrest & Stream 1922

[Pete Lester]

This article was forwarded to me by Frank Cronin. I was able to extract the pages from Google books. I find it interesting as it was written in a time prior to the introduction of the 1 5/8 ounce Super-X loading designed for the Ithaca Super Ten.

I found it interesting to note that the author mentions 4 1/2 dram and 5 dram 1 3/8 and 1 1/2 ounce loadings for the 10ga were available prior to the demise of market hunting. This lead to a 1 1/4 ounce standard for the short ten.

His conclusions are essentially the Short Ten is best suited for higher velocity and larger shot to out perform a 12ga. I certainly agree with the larger shot comment.

He was prophetic in 1922 when he said the 10ga is not likely to ever regain it's popularity in this country.

I am not sure using a Short Ten with 1 1/8 and 1 1/4 ounce loads of #6 lead shot on crows is analogous to delivering a half ton of coal with a five ton truck but it sure is fun to hit them at long range with the five ton truck :)

[Dave Noreen]

Great stuff!!

the author mentions 4 1/2 dram and 5 dram1 3/8 and 1 1/2 ounce loadings for the 10 were available prior to the demise of market hunting.

I certainly can't say they didn't exist, but I've never looked at an ammunition catalogue from one of our North American manufacturers that offered such. I certainly can imagine that shooters in the 1880s and 1890s might well have been handloading such loads in their brass shells. For a short while brass 10-gauge NPEs were being offered up to 3 1/4 inch length.

UMC offerings July 1, 1892 --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Rem-UMC/July11892front_zpsb6cd36e5.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Rem-UMC/July11892back_zpsb640d350.png

[Pete Lester]

I reread that paragraph in the original article and he refers to those heavy Short Ten loadings as "hand loads". So you are most likely correct that long brass shells were stuffed with lots of powder and shot by waterfowlers.

[Craig Larter]

I think the renewed interest in the short ten by a VERY small group of contemporary waterfowl hunters is great. Thanks for posting the interesting article.

[Bill Murphy]

Craig, have you bought a short ten yet this month? I haven't, but the month is young.

[Craig Larter]

Bill: I did check out a Else No.1e and a Ithaca Super ten at the Vintagers but neither came home with me. I do have my 1 1/4oz bismuth all set to swat a few ducks this season.

[Dave Noreen]

In the first paragraph of the article Mr. Landis states "As the 10-gauge double was by far the most popular and for many uses the most effective gun of its time,....."

As far as Parker Bros. production is concerned that is not the case, and I'd suspect that our other manufacturer's production mirrors the Brothers P. Charlie Price presented a paper titled "Parker Gun Gauges Over the Years" at the PGCA 7th Annual Meeting and Conference in Cleveland, Ohio, July 21, 2001. From the very beginning, Parker Bros. produced more 12-gauge than 10-gauge guns. The closest 10-gauge production got to 12-gauge production was in the 1881 to 1885 time period when 44% of production was 10-gauge to 54% 12-gauge. After that 10-gauge production fell dramatically, and after 1895 it was never more than 2%. Charlie's paper goes a long ways towards dispelling the myth that there was a period of time when the 10-gauge was dominant.

FWIW, C.S. Landis is far more known for his writings on .22s and varmint rifles.

[Pete Lester]

This article solved a mystery for me, it never made sense to me that Parker and other makers built 10 to 12+ pound Short Tens when the heaviest factory load was 1 1/4 ounce. The heavy guns were clearly built for those who were stuffing them with much heavier hand loads. Some of those loads probably close to or equal the Super-X loading of 1 5/8 ounce.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Very interesting!

[Bill Murphy]

I have Landis' books about .22 rifles and varmint rifles. When he wrote about shotguns, he was just selling articles, not exhibiting his knowledge. He knew everything about varmint rifles.

[charlie cleveland]

i agree with pete makes no sense to build a 12 lb 10 ga and only shoot 1 1/4 ounce of shot thru it..i too believe these handloads equalled the 1 5/8 ounce factory loads..charlie

[Forrest Grilley]

I have not used a 12 ga. gun waterfowling for many years now. I use my Parker D 10 ga. (2 7/8") exclusively, simply because it outperforms ANY 12 gauge gun I have ever owned for waterfowl, either antique or modern. This is using brass hulls, card wads, and blackpowder. I highly recommend anyone interested in the short ten to read Sherman Bell's article he did in the Double Gun Journal (vol. 11 iss. 3).

Bell himself admits that smokeless loads can't come close to matching the performance of blackpowder loads in this gauge configuration (when trying to keep pressures low). Very large loads of blackpowder, up to 4 3/4 drams of 3F, had significantly higher velocity, with a much reduced pressure over any of the smokeless loads that were developed.

It would be interesting to experiment with other large gauge guns to see if this trend holds up. It has been thoroughly demonstrated that smokeless loads can match the pressures and velocities of the old blackpowder loads in smaller gauge guns (12 ga. and smaller). It is interesting to find that blackpowder outperforms smokeless in the 10 gauge, again that is, when trying to keep pressures low.

It would be a good experiment to see if there is a water shed point with the 12 ga. Does an 8 gauge, have an even higher discrepancy between velocities and low pressures with bp than the 10 ga ? Or is there a point of diminishing return. What about a 6 gauge? I know it's off topic, and probably nothing more than interesting theory, but it was surprising to see how well the 2 7/8" 10 ga. performed with blackpowder over smokeless.

[Dave Noreen]

In 1903, UMC was loading up to a dram more powder and 1/4 ounce more shot in their black powder 8-gauge TRAP Shells than the bulk smokeless powder loads --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Rem-UMC/1903UMC8-gaugeLoads_zpsb70c4a88.jpeg

But in their NEW Club black powder 10-gauge shells, still nothing more than 1 1/4 ounce --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Rem-UMC/190310-gaugeNewClub_zps07cac945.jpeg

[Bill Murphy]

I can live with that 7 dram, 2 1/4 ounce load.

[Rick Losey]

i would not fire it at an overhead bird if I was standing on soft ground

[charlie cleveland]

i bet that 7 dram of black would be bad news on the shooter..thanks for posting the loads there great...charlie