JAMES JULIA AUCTION OCTOBER 7-9, 2014

[George Lander]

A whole bunch of really nice Parkers are coming to auction next week at James Julia's including a "Scarce 20 gauge BHE and a rare 28 gauge DHE". The auction begins on October 7 and runs through October 9th. Quite a number of small gauge, 20, 28 & .410 guns are included. Several are restored, upgraded & reproduction guns, but there are a number that are shown as "high original condition" guns. Estimated prices seem to reflect the economic times that we are presently in. Ten years ago I believe that the estimates on some would be a bit higher. There is also one lot (# 2458) of @ 30 Parker Bros. Gun Company advertising items. Ithaca and Browning guns are also well represented. I wish I had some dough! :crying:

Best Regards, George

[Mills Morrison]

I like the Lefever 8 gauge. Like you say, I wish I had some dough. The only thing I can afford is the catalog:banghead:

[Dean Romig]

I expect to be there early on the 8th. Maybe I'll see some of you there.

...ditto on the dough.

[ForrestArmstrong]

Catalog #2 is a collector item itself. I hope some of you who attend can take some pics and post them.

[Mills Morrison]

Just ordered Catalog 2. The lady thought I wanted to place an absentee bid and I had a good mind to risk divorce and financial ruin and bid on the Lefever 8

[Patrick Butler]

I agree that the JJ Vol. Two is well worth a look. I am bidding on a few of the less pricy Parkers.

Winchester 21 collectors must be mortgaging their houses and dipping into their family's trust funds to get some of the astounding Bill Phifer collection that is up for sale...

Speaking of auctions, did a PGCA member bag this great-looking Parker DH Damascus 12
that sold (no surprise) for $2500 on the first day? I left two emails and a phone message, but it was gone. Serves me right for living on the West Coast. See:
http://www.gunsinternational.com/Parker-DH-12-Gauge-sn-107883-NICE-ORIGINAL.cfm?gun_id=100487651

Patrick

[Dean Romig]

I see that Josh Loewensteiner has clicked on the 'thumbs up' (Thanks) button on most of the posts on this thread. For those of you who may not be aware, Josh works for James D. Julia consigning firearms, either individually or whole collections or estates acting as a sales agent.

[George Lander]

I see that Josh Loewensteiner has clicked on the 'thumbs up' (Thanks) button on most of the posts on this thread. For those of you who may not be aware, Josh works for James D. Julia as a buyer of firearms, either individually or whole collections or estates.

Good for Josh! I'm glad that they finally have someone that is knowledgable about Parkers in particular and double guns in general. The also have John Sexton for Civil War artifacts & memorabilia. He's, probably, the best in the country on these.

Best Regards, George

[Jeff Davis]

I got a chance to stop by there yesterday on my way back from grouse hunting. They were open for viewing. Pretty unbelievable the amount of fine guns they have. The even had Al Capone's pocket watch.

[Mills Morrison]

Volume 2 of the catalog came this weekend. Wow! At first, I thought they had sent me all three volumes, it was so thick. Gun porn at its finest

[Chuck Bishop]

The auction starts today. Tomorrow, the shotguns. I especially like Parker lot # 2439.

[Bill Murphy]

Y'all better get a good night's sleep. We out of towners will be glued to the computer watching the action. I only left a bid on Proxibid for one item and I won't bother you with the details. Good luck to everyone.

[Mills Morrison]

Gentlemen start your engines

[Craig Larter]

I have my fingers crossed.

[Bill Murphy]

Well, I got mine, at less than I bid. Chuck's gun brought a pretty astounding price. Congratulations, Chuck. I think there was something there for everyone, at a price they would be willing to pay. I may be wrong, but I think I heard Josh at the auctioneer's podium when the Parkers were sold. Josh, tell me if I'm wrong. Who was there??

[Craig Larter]

I also heard Josh on the telephone with Parker bidders. Many of the Parkers brought good money in my opinion. The B Lefever was sweet and brought 26K+ and the 8ga Lefever brought 15.5K+.

[Eldon Goddard]

I bid on the 8 ga Lefever as best I could but I did not come close to the final price. I thought it would sell around 9 to 10 I did not expect the 15,500.

[Craig Larter]

Eldon: I was surprised the Lefever 8ga brought 15.5K also, sorry you were not able to buy it. It was a really nice example and a real beast at 15.5lbs as I recall. But it was a better buy than the Parker DH 8ga at 12.5k in my opinion. I would love a 8 some day. It was fun watching the auction and there are always some sleepers and surprises.

[Bill Murphy]

I thought the Lefever had some merit, but I didn't study the gun before the auction. I have a DH 8 and don't need another. It was a pretty neat gun though.

[Robin Lewis]

I found this auction to be a little more than strange. There were honest Parkers that sold for what the upgrades sold for?

But, the strangest part of the auction was the implementation of a new "executive order" signed in February that U.S.Fish & Wildlife Service is implementing; and Julia is following. The situation is that nobody may sell Asian ivory without it being certified 100 years old or older AND African elephant ivory must be the same or documented under CITES as imported before Jan 18, 1990. Unless the object (gun in this case) has a U.S. Gov ESA Cirtificate, the object will sell less the ivory! Any of the guns sold at this auction that has ivory will sell but the ivory is removed. So ivory beads on the Parkers will be removed before the high bidder takes the gun. :cuss: If they want to keep it all original (together) Julia will hold the gun until a certificate is obtained by an outside supplied,at a cost to you of $1,500.:banghead:

Don't ask me what ESA or CITES are, I don't know and frankly, I don't want to learn either.

I looked in the glass case and there were several nice Colts that have ivory grips with notices attached that the grip don't sell with the gun!

One of our members has a Parker with ivory inlays in the stock, that will look just great with them removed.:confused:

Anyone want to buy my old Steinway Piano ..... ivory keys not included?:whistle:

[George Lander]

Robin: That is strange sure enough. I guess that means from here on out ANY GUN with ANY IVORY will have to be certified or have the ivory removed. What do they do with the ivory that is removed? I can understand the ban on new ivory from elephant poaching, but there should be a better way to address this problem. Perhaps Gunmakers could begin using 100 year old ivory keys.

Best Regards, George

[Robin Lewis]

The way he stated it you can use any ivory you want as long as it is U.S. certified! I think this is ridiculous to say it mildly. Its an election year and here in New Hampshire my representatives are running around "talking" to us and I intend to bring this up to them and demand they address it and fix it. I see no other way around this but to get involved and have the "new regulation" made reasonable or removed.

I know we are not to post political posts but this effects the Parker community directly so I decided to make you aware of the issue.

Today, knowing this, if I sold a Parker with ivory, I would remove it and store it in an envelope to mail to the new owner after the auction. That would allow the gun to stay true and honest.

[Dean Romig]

Jim Julia, being a deeply committed auctioneer of thousands and thousands of antiques and collectible items that have ivory embellishments of one form or another, is extremely concerned with what appears very likely to become enacted into law.

Jim sent a 'Letter to the Editor' to be published in Parker Pages, explaining all of this and how it would negatively affect our beloved firearms and other collectibles, in order to educate folks so they might be inspired to write or call their senators and representative so this 'soon to be' law can be crushed. I apologized that I couldn't publish it because it would put Parker Pages in the position of becoming a political platform and that is something we can not and will not do. Parker Pages has always been and always will be politically neutral.

Outlawing antique ivory on antique collectibles will not have any effect on stopping the nefarious poachers of elephants today.

[Patrick Butler]

I found this auction to be a little more than strange. There were honest Parkers that sold for what the upgrades sold for?

But, the strangest part of the auction was the implementation of a new "executive order" signed in February that U.S.Fish & Wildlife Service is implementing; and Julia is following. The situation is that nobody may sell Asian ivory without it being certified 100 years old or older AND African elephant ivory must be the same or documented under CITES as imported before Jan 18, 1990. Unless the object (gun in this case) has a U.S. Gov ESA Certificate, the object will sell less the ivory! Any of the guns sold at this auction that has ivory will sell but the ivory is removed. So ivory beads on the Parkers will be removed before the high bidder takes the gun. :cuss: If they want to keep it all original (together) Julia will hold the gun until a certificate is obtained by an outside supplied,at a cost to you of $1,500.:banghead:

Don't ask me what ESA or CITES are, I don't know and frankly, I don't want to learn either.

I looked in the glass case and there were several nice Colts that have ivory grips with notices attached that the grip don't sell with the gun!

One of our members has a Parker with ivory inlays in the stock, that will look just great with them removed.:confused:

Anyone want to buy my old Steinway Piano ..... ivory keys not included?:whistle:

Speaking of music, many of the very old high-end string instruments found in the great orchestras of the world contain ivory in the body and bows.
I doubt that it's replacement with plastic would do the tone of the instruments much good. I can replace the front bead on a double and it would shoot just as well, but these great orchestras travel often and legally can not even cross state lines withy their instruments. The Berlin Philharmonic in NYC this week and I did not hear of any of their instruments getting confiscated by customs.
That smells like a double-standard.

Call me a naive optimist, but old ivory that makes up a small part of a vintage gun or guitar is one issue where I believe the Fed regulators will come to their senses and change the regulations.

Meanwhile, I am of the opinion that all of the white beads on my guns are plastic replacements-very good ones.

[Bob Hayes]

I am sure the govt has a small fee that allows everyone to comply.That would only be reasonable.

[Dean Romig]

I am sure the govt has a small fee that allows everyone to comply.That would only be reasonable.

Yes they do, and to get a letter authenticating the age of the ivory on each and every item will cost you $1,500 per letter today and likely more if this law is allowed to become a reality.

[Robin Lewis]

Speaking of music, many of the very old high-end string instruments found in the great orchestras of the world contain ivory in the body and bows.
I doubt that it's replacement with plastic would do the tone of the instruments much good. I can replace the front bead on a double and it would shoot just as well, but these great orchestras travel often and legally can not even cross state lines withy their instruments. The Berlin Philharmonic in NYC this week and I did not hear of any of their instruments getting confiscated by customs.
That smells like a double-standard.

Call me a naive optimist, but old ivory that makes up a small part of a vintage gun or guitar is one issue where I believe the Fed regulators will come to their senses and change the regulations.

Meanwhile, I am of the opinion that all of the white beads on my guns are plastic replacements-very good ones.

Actually, part of the rant by James Julia on this topic was that, in fact, a visiting orchestra arrived in NYC had their instruments confiscated because of this on entry into the US. After much "to do" they got them back but the international music community has put it out that travel to the US with their instruments isn't a good choice. James said to google this and you will see that travel to the US with a Strataverious(sp?) isn't wise. I have not done that but somehow I believe it.

[Bob Hayes]

We have a gun show this weekend here in Florida.I am curious to see if anyone has heard of this law(reg.).There are alot of vintage guns,grips,beads,etc..
And its $1500 really?

[Dean Romig]

In order to get a letter from the only source Julia's knows of, yes, it is $1,500

[Patrick Butler]

Back to the thread subject, today's JJ auction was a great one to listen to on Proxbid. I watch the site, listen to the auction and always try to bid by phone.

I wish that I had some basic knowledge re all of those great English SXS, but am not sure I want to put the years into the education, which would include several bad buys-My first Parker had the receiver blued...and after several years and five books I have just scratched the surface-which is what make this site so valuable.

I did buy the F. Beesley (2231) 20 with case after speaking to a few PGCA who are English double collectors and feel (OK, hope) I got a deal on the Parker GH Damascus (2443) at 5.5K.

[Mills Morrison]

I heard about this and it is an asinine law even by Washington standards.

[Angel Cruz]

I have a dumb question on auctions. How do you follow and see what's going on during the auction? Without being there of course.

[Bill Murphy]

Angel, first, register on a site like Proxibid, find the auction you like, when the auction starts, if you are signed on, you can turn on the audio and listen to the bidding. The screen will show the bidding in real time and allow you to bid by clicking on the "bid now" button. I think you may have to get your credit card approved, always by Proxibid and sometimes by the auction house. By the way, Angel, I received your great gift in the mail yesterday. Thank you so much.

[Chuck Bishop]

Angel,

I was using Invaluable, not Proxibid to monitor the auction yesterday. I was able to view the lots and bids as they came up but I didn't have audio. Maybe I wasn't doing something right or didn't have my speakers enabled. Perhaps Proxibid allows audio. It would have been nice to have audio. It would also be nice if Julia had a web cam so we could see the action. I'll log on to Proxibid today and see if I get audio.

It seemed to me that most of the guns sold were at the low end of the estimates, of course there were exceptions where the hammer price was towards the upper end of the estimate and in some cases well over the estimate. My gun sold for slightly above the low estimate. I was hoping for more but that's the chance you take at auction. I guess I'll have to change my avitar

[Mills Morrison]

I used Proxibid and you can participate as non-bidding participant if you want to watch and not accidentally hit the bid button when the $65,000 Purdey is up.

It seems prices were mixed, but there were some pretty strong prices for some. I crossed an 8 gauge Lefever off my wish list.

[Angel Cruz]

Thank you guys. And you are welcome Murph!!
BTW how much did the D grade 12 hammer gun go for?? That was a nice one..

[Dean Romig]

That was a great gun. it had a gold grip cap and Bernard barrels.... extremely unusual and the ONLY one made like that.

Hammered at $4,250 to a friend.

[Bill Murphy]

I tried for days to get my Invaluable account signed in, couldn't get in, finally went to Proxibid. I am registered on both sites, just in case. I don't think a video feed would be that interesting. The audio was great. The auctioneer's joke when the Trojans were sold was a classic.

[Angel Cruz]

That was a great gun. it had a gold grip cap and Bernard barrels.... extremely unusual and the ONLY one made like that.

Hammered at $4,250 to a friend.

Good price. Even with the cut bbls.

[Dean Romig]

Yes, even the ladies who were present laughed... it was cute.

*Good place for a Trojan, by the way*

[Mark Ouellette]

Eldon: I was surprised the Lefever 8ga brought 15.5K... But it was a better buy than the Parker DH 8ga at 12.5k in my opinion.

Craig and all,

What was the condition of the DH 8 as compared to the Lefever 8?

Mark

[Bill Murphy]

The best Trojan sold for ten grand when the BP is paid. #2148, 12 gauge.

[Dean Romig]

Good price. Even with the cut bbls.

There's no matting on the rib so you wouldn't know it without a letter.

[Dean Romig]

The best Trojan sold for ten grand when the BP is paid. #2148, 12 gauge.

A little shy of the price EDM's NIB Trojan went for at Julia's a few years back.

[Dean Romig]

Craig and all,

What was the condition of the DH 8 as compared to the Lefever 8?

Mark


I can't speak to the LeFever 8 (I never looked closely at it) but the DH 8 was in very good used and somewhat worn condition... but I think it hammered for considerably less than I expected.

[Mills Morrison]

The estimate on the DH 8 was more than the Lefever 8, if I remember correctly.

[charlie cleveland]

boy would i have loved to had the dough to have bid and won that lefever 8 ga...charlie

[Eldon Goddard]

I used Proxibid and you can participate as non-bidding participant if you want to watch and not accidentally hit the bid button when the $65,000 Purdey is up.

It seems prices were mixed, but there were some pretty strong prices for some. I crossed an 8 gauge Lefever off my wish list.

Mills if you are saying you won that 8 gauge Lefever then Congratulations. I wish I could have bid more but I did not want to get any kind of loan. Maybe one day you will let me see her in person.

[Mills Morrison]

Unfortunately just the opposite. I realized it was waaaaay above my price range

[Ray Masciarella]

Is this business over ivory a political issue or merely a disagreement over gov't policy? A discussion about it is not touting or bashing any candidate or gov't official. As a group, we have an interest in gov't policy as it relates to our hobby. While I think it is good not to get into political debates here, I see nothing wrong with speaking up as a group to protect our interests. There a influence in numbers. Better than being sheep led to slaughter and just complain about it on the way.

[Robin Lewis]

Is this business over ivory a political issue or merely a disagreement over gov't policy? A discussion about it is not touting or bashing any candidate or gov't official. As a group, we have an interest in gov't policy as it relates to our hobby. While I think it is good not to get into political debates here, I see nothing wrong with speaking up as a group to protect our interests. There a influence in numbers. Better than being sheep led to slaughter and just complain about it on the way.

I agree, Ray!

I didn't know anything about this mess until attending this auction. I mentioned it to my older sister and she read about this several months ago but had not seen any impact. Here is a link to a Whitehouse info page on the topic.... http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/02/11/fact-sheet-national-strategy-combating-wildlife-trafficking-commercial-b Reading this without seeing the results would cause me little concern. It "seems" OK; its the Fish and Wildlife Service interpretation that's obviously in the weeds.

I sent three letters off to my reps yesterday, not that I expect that to have much of an effect but at least I had my say.

[Dave Noreen]

The NRAs statement --

http://www.nraila.org/legislation/federal-legislation/2014/8/please-take-action-on-proposed-ban-on-the-sale-and-trade-of-ivory.aspx?s=ivory&st=&ps=

[Mills Morrison]

Check out this link too. This law is affecting the larger antiques business and not just the gun market. The gun market is probably a small part of it. Stopping illegal ivory is a very legitimate goal, but the current law hits a lot of innocent bystanders.

http://www.igavelauctions.com/2014/03/21/limits-ivory-sales-meant-protect-elephants-set-wide-concerns/