Are Remington game loads safe to shoot in my Parker?

[John Nagel]

I have a Parker VH 16 ga. on a #1 frame. 2 3/4" chambers. The shells I typically buy are Remington game loads (1200 fps) such as the ones here:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/8-REM-GL167

Are these going to hurt my gun over time? They are considerably less expensive than rst..

Thanks!

[David Holes]

If your gun is in good condition they will work fine. They do have plenty of recoil. I personally like less recoil and Cabelas has solved that for me with Herters shells. They are 1165 fps. 1 oz. loads. they shoot soft and work great, and are a great buy. I just picked up 7 flats of 8 shot. Can't beat the price.

[John Nagel]

If your gun is in good condition they will work fine. They do have plenty of recoil. I personally like less recoil and Cabelas has solved that for me with Herters shells. They are 1165 fps. 1 oz. loads. they shoot soft and work great, and are a great buy. I just picked up 7 flats of 8 shot. Can't beat the price.

Wow, thanks for the heads up! These are a great value! I will pick some up for target shooting. I wish they made these in 7.5 so I could use them for grouse!

[Pete Lester]

In my opinion the Remington Game Loads aka "Black Beauties" are junk. Their recoil is horrible in 12 ga, even with 1 ounce loads, far more than a 1 ounce 1290 fps load should develop. I have also found them disappointing on the trap field as well. I never bothered to pattern them because I was done with them when I tried them.

[John Campbell]

Price is relative. What is the continued good function and preservation of your Parker worth? The VH was stocked in Black Walnut... which splits with recoil over time. The Herters and RST loads may prove most economical in the long term.

[John Nagel]

Price is relative. What is the continued good function and preservation of your Parker worth? The VH was stocked in Black Walnut... which splits with recoil over time. The Herters and RST loads may prove most economical in the long term.

Thanks so much for the info guys, I am definitely going to go with the herters loads for repetitive shooting. What would you recommend as a grouse load for my parker? Price for a hunting load would not matter at all to me as I do not get a lot of shots grouse hunting.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

John, I have put many, many cases of Remington game loads thru my VH 1 frame 16.
I still have 5 cases 7 1/2's plus sevral cases of Estates, and 5 cases of Herters. I dont appreciate much difference in recoil between the brands. I now reload and more often shoot 7/8 and 3/4 thru the 16's( they are great). I have never had a problem with using #8's for grouse, I certainly think that 1 1/8 oz loads are "overkill" for grouse and any factory 1 oz load is fine for grouse.

[Bruce Day]

Your gun was patterned with 1 oz 2 1/ 2 dr loads , which is what the rems are. Such loads are also made by fed win fiochi and RST. I shoot any and all those through a number of Parkers both internal and external hammer designs both Damascus and fluid steel. Right now I have in the basement four cases of rems and five of Feds and one of herters from 6 7 and 8. I shoot prairie birds at anywhere from 20 to 50 yards and these shells work fine for me. Off to montana in early sept.

Some of my 16s are high grade others lower. Most are 1 frame some 0 frAme.

[Bruce Day]

If a person looks at what Parker recommended they will find that it is a 1 oz 2 1/2 dr load or a 7/8 oz 2 1/2 dr load but most Damascus and fluid 1 and. 0 frAme were designed for the 1 oz load. A 1 oz 2 3/4 dr load is still within the Parker service load charts but I have seen that few people check those and instead offer up their own ideas

[Bill Murphy]

The 1290 fps 12 gauge loads that Pete describes are nothing like the 16 gauge Game Loads. The Game Loads are 1200 fps and are very mild. Pete should be buying the Federal 12 gauge Top Guns, 7/8 ounce at 1200, even lighter than the 16 gauge Game Loads. After many years of reloading 16s, I have quit loading and just buy the Game Loads.

[Bruce Day]

If a person takes the effort to read what Parker said they will find that Parkers stated that " a good bird load " is a 1 oz 2 3/4 dr for the 12 ga.

These are available today from many sources. I have cases of rems like that.


Source : Parker small bore shot gun brochure.

[Pete Lester]

The 1290 fps 12 gauge loads that Pete describes are nothing like the 16 gauge Game Loads. The Game Loads are 1200 fps and are very mild. Pete should be buying the Federal 12 gauge Top Guns, 7/8 ounce at 1200, even lighter than the 16 gauge Game Loads. After many years of reloading 16s, I have quit loading and just buy the Game Loads.

When Pete buys and shoots factory ammo he waits for sales at Dicks Sporting Goods and in 12ga the Rio 1 ounce load at 1150 fps is a great load too.

[Bill Murphy]

The original poster asked about Remington 16 gauge game loads. Remington 16 gauge game loads are very acceptable in Parker shotguns. I last bought these shells at Dick's, where Pete shops. I paid about $5.00 a box plus tax. They are probably a bit higher now. Dick's also has a rebate program if we choose to participate. Yesterday, I bought Federal 20 gauge four packs at Walmart for $19.94 plus tax. These are also very acceptable 1200 fps loads. The Federal Top Gun 12 gauge 7/8 ounce, 1200 fps loads are delevered to our gun club for $5.65 a box. These three bargain loads cover all 12, 16, and 20 gauge shooting for my Parkers.

[Bruce Day]

WHAT!!! And your gun did not blow up, the stock did not fall apart? How can that be??

[Pete Lester]

WHAT!!! And your gun did not blow up, the stock did not fall apart? How can that be??

That is kind of funny. I think I recall seeing a picture of some guy in a crash helmet and padded clothing shooting a damascus gun for the first time, he kind of looked like you Bruce. I guess we are long way from that day. :bigbye:

[Bill Holcombe]

WHAT!!! And your gun did not blow up, the stock did not fall apart? How can that be??

While I understand the barrels and actions and gun were originally built to handle such loads, Bruce are you saying that a 100+ year old stock is in as good of condition to handle recoil as it was when it was new?

I am not arguing you on this, I am merely inquiring as you have much more knowledge and experience of this then I do, however, I would think that just as with 100-200 year old wood furniture my family has, it doesn't hurt to treat the wood a little more gently then when it was first made.

If I am mistaken in this belief I welcome the education. However, I imagine there isn't really any way to tell if a stock head will split prior to shooting it and I would just as well shoot a lower recoil shell then have to go to the trouble of getting a parker glass bedded or repairing a split head.

Again, 99% of this is from reading this forum, very little of it is from experience shooting parkers, but I am eager to learn.

[William Davis]

Smiths are not Parker's but,

Fellow was at the gun club with a real high grade LC Smith, family gun, shooting Rios from Dicks. Never give unsolicited advice but suggested B&P 7/8 oz loads.

Two weeks ago saw him again guys were looking at the cracked stock. What's the point of trying to save a few bucks on shells. 1 1/8 oz 3 dram Promo shells are objectionable to me in a modern gun much more so in a nice double.

William

[Bruce Day]

I suggest you look carefully at a smith stock on comparison to a Parker stock.

[John Campbell]

Smiths are not Parker's but... What's the point of trying to save a few bucks on shells. 1 1/8 oz 3 dram Promo shells are objectionable to me in a modern gun much more so in a nice double.

William

Somehow, I can't understand people who own and shoot nice guns like L C. Smiths and Parkers, then put overloaded "on sale" cartridges through them to save a few dollars. The cracked stock William mentions is the price they often pay.

"Let me be perfectly clear" on my point (sounds familiar): Most of the Parkers and L. C. Smiths still extant are close to or well over a century old. Many were stocked with American Black Walnut that has been drying out and/or oil soaking for the same length of time. The stock heads are thus weakened from when they were new.

In addition, these guns do not have a lot of recoil absorbing surface area in their designs. Combine this flaw, with dry weakened wood, hot loaded "cheap" ammunition and repeated shooting and viola -- you crack stock heads.

This has nothing to do with what the guns could safely digest when they were six weeks old.

But heck... these guys saved the price of a KFC bucket of extra crispy on a flat of shells in the process....

[William Davis]

Cost to travel to a shoot like the Southern rooms gas meals entry fees, and a nice old shotgun worth thousands, false economy looking to save a dollar a box on shells.

Not to mention you are probably going to shoot higher scores with light loads. I am told Cabellas has a cheap shipping deal on B&P Competion Ones 7/8 oz they land about 8 bucks a box, dollar more than Dicks Rio's.

William

[Rich Anderson]

If you want/need to buy factory shells for hunting then the RST shells will do the job no problem. As you said you don't shoot as many shells in a season.

IMHO you don't need 1 1/8oz of 7 1/2 shot to kill a Grouse. I hunt mainly with small bores using 7/8 or 3/4 oz loads and do just fine with these and #8 shot.

In addition I really don't care what Parker advertised as a serviceable load when their gun left the factory 100 years ago. You gun and it's stock are pushing 100 years old, treat them with respect. When you were a toddler you ate baby food, I would assume you don't eat that any more. Unless your gun has been restocked then give it the respect it deserves and hopefully someone else will still be shooting it in another 100 years.

[Pete Lester]

You gun and it's stock are pushing 100 years old, treat them with respect. When you were a toddler you ate baby food, I would assume you don't eat that any more. Unless your gun has been restocked then give it the respect it deserves and hopefully someone else will still be shooting it in another 100 years.

I think you might want to come up with a different analogy, a lot of people who live to be 100 end up eating baby food again :rotf:

[Ben Rawls]

AS I have gotten older I don't like the recoil and I assume the gun is at least as tolerant as I am. Both of us agreed to use as light a load as will get the job done. I rarely go over a 1oz load in any gauge and 1200fps is about my max except in modern 20s and 28s. 7/8oz is perfectly acceptable in any gauge and I regularly shoot one from RST in my vintage British guns. I have found the Rios are very good in my Parkers on the trap field and the recoil is acceptable. I have never used Herters (at least not since 1959) but I will try and find some.

[Sam Ogle]

I started out with 1 1/8 ounce loads in a 12 gauge......am now shooting 1 ounce maximum, and really like 7/8 ouncers in a 12.
I started out with 1 ounce in a 16 gauge. Then, tried 7/8 ounce.....couldn't tell any difference, so tried 3/4 ounce using Downrange wads & PB.
I am just astounded at how well "light" loads work in shotguns. They pattern beautifully,
kill birds, & shatter targets.
Sam Ogle, Lincoln, NE

[Leighton Stallones]

I shoot Fiocchi 1 oz ammo in my 16 ga and it is great for short chambers. The fired case is only 2 5/8 inches and the pressures are mild.

[William Davis]

I did some pattern work with my 30 inch VH this week. 7/8 oz and 3/4 oz. 7 1/2 shot. Seems to me reason light shot target loads work well are Parker tight chokes. Plenty of pellets to break clay targets at long ranges.

Games harder to kill than clay Birds. Game 7/8 is probably too light. Am working up 1oz no 6 loads for crows.

William

[Steve Havener]

William if you can find it true #7s are absolute poison on grouse, close flushing pheasant and not too big for quail. I have even taken all of my Sage grouse which are pretty big birds with my 16 gauge using 1 ounce loads of #7.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Steve, I have had a bag of #7's laying around for a couple of years. I recently loaded up a hundred or so 2 1/2" hulls with 7/8 oz #7's for grouse and also a couple boxes of 1 oz loads. They should be great on grouse this fall--should cut down on cripples.

[scott kittredge]

William if you can find it true #7s are absolute poison on grouse, close flushing pheasant and not too big for quail. I have even taken all of my Sage grouse which are pretty big birds with my 16 gauge using 1 ounce loads of #7.

Yes I use 7's in a 7/8ths oz load for our "wild" stocked pheasant., and it does work great in my DH 1 frame 12 ga.

[John Campbell]

For well over a century "an ounce of 7s" has been the standard upland game load in England. With astounding efficiency. And today, #6 works as well if you can't find 7s in the US. Waterfowl require a bit larger shot however...

[William Davis]

Wonder were you would find 7s. Letter with my VH gives it's percentages with # 7 shot. Be nice to stay true.

William

[Bill Murphy]

English #6 is American #7. The conversion chart with pellets per ounce is on Hallowell's website. John, your British "Ounce of #7" would be an ounce of American #8, not much of a load for an American shooter on a bird much bigger than a quail, unless shot over a pointing dog.

[Marc Retallack]

Here you go William

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Magnum-Lead-Shot-7-100-25_bag/productinfo/030ML07/

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Nickel-Plated-lead-shot-7-25mm098-11lbs/productinfo/NP07/

[Dave Noreen]

I shot quite a few 1 ounce 2 1/2 dram equiv. Remington Game Loads over the years and they seemed to shoot about the same as the wonderful Winchester/Western 16-gauge 1 ounce 2 1/2 dram equiv. Dove & Quail loads from those years when they came in a compression formed hull while the 12- and 20-gauge didn't!! Best reloading 16-gauge hull ever!! The last two flats of 16-gauge Remington Game Loads I got were marked 1 ounce 1200 feet per second, and they were just brutal, even in my heavy Remington "Sportsman" autoloader!! Shooting them in a six pound Fox was definately unpleasant. The 3 1/4 dram equiv. 1 1/8 ounce Remington Express shells don't kick like that. Fortunately I have enough 3 1/4 dram equiv. 1 1/8 ounce #6 and enough 1 ounce and 7/8 ounce at 1200 fps reloads, that if I live long enough to shoot them all up, I'll be one happy camper!! So, I won't be buying any more 16-gauge Remington Game Loads.

[William Davis]

Thanks, I buy from Balistic products never looked at there shot. See they have a good shipping deal too

William

[Dave Suponski]

Dave, The best 16 gauge Remington Game loads are the ones fired by someone else so that I get the hulls....:)

[Richard Flanders]

Rio makes loads in various strengths, at least in 12ga. Not sure about 16ga. They're generally very reasonably priced also.

[Les Van Drie]

Rio makes a 16 ga one oz. at 1300fps! Pretty stout recoil in a light sxs.