Ball grips on hammerless parkers?

[Bill Holcombe]

I had had the opinion that ball grips were just on hammer parkers, however, with perusing of photos in the albums I am encountering several hammerless parkers with ball grips. I personally think the ball grip is superior looking to the end cap, and I am certain it cost more to make, but is their a certain vintage of hammerless parker that is more common with the ball grip or was it just an option some chose on a small number of hamerless guns?

[Bill Murphy]

It is an option that is requested on the order. However, late .410 skeet guns seemed to have ball grips more often than anyone would have ordered. I have owned ball grip hammerless guns that did not show up on the order. Some "ordered" guns, however, were pulled from stock if the gun matched a good part of the requested order.

[Brian Dudley]

True "ball grips" were used on pretty much only hammer guns. Some very early hammerless guns also have a similar larger ball grip. Most uncapped pistol grip hammerless guns from the turn of the century forward had ball grips that were smaller or more of a half grip type. Understand what I am getting at?
Basically, hammer guns used a very large round knob grip than hammerless guns.

In my opinion, the uncapped pistol grip on hammerless Parkers is more rate than straight grip guns. Or at least less commonly seen these days.

[Rich Anderson]

I have a CHE Damascus barreled 20ga with a ball grip. I believe the serial number is under 100K but I haven't looked at it since the end of bird season....but that's about to change here shortly:)

[Bill Murphy]

Brian brought up a good point. A true "ball grip" on the early guns is more pronounced at the ball end than are the ball grips on later hammerless guns. However, Parker Brothers used the term "ball grip" on the later guns also.

[Brian Dudley]

I believe the technical term for all of them is "Uncapped Pistol Grip". Or just "Pistol Grip". This comes from how the records are filled out.

Chuck, if you are readin this thread, what different grip styles have you seen specifically called out in the Stock and Order books?

[Dave Noreen]

I think the later half-pistol grip of hammerless guns is being confused with the ball-grip of hammer guns.

In looking through some Parker Bros. catalogue repros in my collection, the pre-ejectors "blue ink" catalogue says "straight or pistol grip" throughout.

The next catalogue which includes ejectors, says "straight, pistol or half-pistol grip" for the A1-Special and AAH, and "straight or pistol grip" for the lower grades, except VH which says "pistol or straight grip."

By the "Pine Cone" catalogue "straight, pistol or half-pistol" has filtered all the way down to PH-Grade.

The grip offerings in the "Flying Brandt" catalogue, the first to include the Trojan Grade, are the same.

The 1923 pocket catalogue again only mentions half-pistol grip for the AAH and A1-Special grades.

The 1927 pocket catalogue only mentions "straight or pistol grip" throughout.

The 1929 "Flying Geese" catalogue mentions "straight, full pistol or half pistol grip" down to the DH-Grade; and "straight or pistol grip" for the GH-, PH- and VH-Grades.

The 1930 pocket catalogue again only says "straight or pistol grip" from A 1 Special to VH-Grade

Finally the big 1937 Remington catalogue offers "any style of grip" on most grades and spells all three out on a couple of grades.

None of these catalogues picture a gun with anything but a straight grip or a capped full pistol grip.

So, guess that was a waste of my time!!

[Dean Romig]

As I understand it, the "Ball Grip" was almost exclusive to the hammer guns and I have a couple of examples in my safes of hammer guns with original stocks with both ball grips and half pistol grips.

[Bill Holcombe]

That is the understanding I had Dean, but there are several posts I have read streaming through the archives and older posts about people who own hammerless guns with ballgrips.

I personally wish that Parker had kept the ballgrip. Back in highschool I was shooting at the Texas 4-H state Shotgun games in san antonio and one of the kids I talked to was shooting a english best gun(his father's idea-not mine) and I remember really liking the way a ball grip felt in my hand. I don't know maybe its my big hands, but they reallly appeal to me.

[Bill Murphy]

Brian, in the Remington era, the "B" notation is mentioned in the Serialization Book. There may have been earlier mentions. You are correct in saying that many round grips in the hammerless era had the "P" code in the Serialization Book. I'm not sure whether that was a default entry or an actual reference to round knob pistol grips. If you will look in the SB, you will see many more "Ps" than you will see round knob pistol grips. Don't believe every "P" you see in the Serialization Book.

[John Havard]

So would this more properly be called a "half-pistol" grip? As I recall the serialization book just says "P"

http://parkerguns.org/forums/album.php?albumid=521&pictureid=5723

http://parkerguns.org/forums/album.php?albumid=521&pictureid=5728

[Bill Murphy]

Brian, the "B" for ball grip is seen many times in later guns. If you want examples, read the list of .410 guns in the Appendix of TPS. After reading tens of thousands of order book entries, I have never seen an entry for "Uncapped Pistol Grip". True, many stock book entries for grip types do not agree with the actual gun, especially in the IBM card era. It is obvious to me that the transcribers of the records to the Serialization Book used a default entry because many cards did not mention a grip type.

[Dean Romig]

In the same Serialization Book you will see thousands of "C" entries in the S column indicating "capped pistol grip" and far, far fewer with the "P" entry for "pistol grip" which is the "half pistol grip" or "round knob" grip but also includes the true ball grip on the old hammer guns as those were also listed as a "P" in the S column.

[Dean Romig]

So would this more properly be called a "half-pistol" grip? As I recall the serialization book just says "P"

http://parkerguns.org/forums/album.php?albumid=521&pictureid=5723

http://parkerguns.org/forums/album.php?albumid=521&pictureid=5728

Yes John and that grip is also known as a "round knob" grip.

[Bill Holcombe]

OK yeah that is what I am referring to

[Dave Noreen]

"Round knob" is a term used by Browning collectors to describe the grips on A5s and Superposeds. The Parker Bros. catalogues that mention this style of grip use "half-pistol grip" with or without the hyphen.

P.S. No North American manufacturer back in the day ever offered a grip called Prince of Wales (PoW). That is totally an English gun thing, until Tony offered some on A10s.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks Dave. I have heard it used in reference to Parkers half-pistol grip but never have seen "round knob" used by either Parker Bros. or Remington.

[Bill Murphy]

Yup, Parker and Remington, correctly or in error, used the term ball grip well into the hammerless era.

[Austin J Hawthorne Jr.]

John,
One of my D grades, only a few thousand numbers earlier than yours has the same rounded grip and is listed in the serialization book as "P".

[edgarspencer]

For those that missed this thread,
http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5898

Bruce has posted some excellent pictures of Ball, and half pistol examples.

[Russ Jackson]

I picked this 10 Ga. /12 Ga.Early Hammerless DH Grade ,up a couple of months ago ,it has a beautiful Ball Grip , I am having trouble getting clear pictures but ,I gave it a go ! Brian D. has recently put a Silvers Pad on this Gun and it turned out beautiful ! I won't infringe on this thread with a bunch of Pics. but here is the Grip and one photo of the receiver colors and engraving !

[Dean Romig]

Very nice Russ, and somewhat unusual for a hammerless gun, however that is an early hammerless DH.

[wayne goerres]

Is that a two barrel set. Its a nice gun.

[charlie cleveland]

mighty nice gun you got there russ...and heh now you can kill them grouse way out yonder...charlie

[Russ Jackson]

Thank You Fellas ,it is a two barrel set built on a # 3 Frame with two Forends ,10 Ga. is 32" and the 12 Ga. Barrel is 30 ! Both sets weigh the same and the gun feels good with either set of barrels on the receiver ! I cant seem to attach the letter but will try again !