Trojan frame size

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Weren't 16 ga Trojans offered in only 1 frame size, a 1 frame?
I was offered a 16 Trojan over the phone this morning, and the gent said that it was on the light 16 ga frame( O frame). He said the gun wAS at 80% condition, 28" F/F barrels, and made in 1917. Asking price was $1500. I do not get on the gun auction sites much, so I am not sure what a Trojan 16 would go for. I am not real interested in the gun as I have a VH, DHE, and GH 16 already. Am I correct about the frame size?

[Dean Romig]

Typically, yes. The Trojan 16 was built on a 1-frame but that's not to say it may not have been built on a 0-frame as a special order only.

The price quoted, for a Trojan 16 with 28" barrels in 80% original condition, seems good but if the gun was actually built on a 0-frame, and it can be documented, I would jump right on it.

[Jerry Harlow]

Yes, a 1 for 16s. He probably has a VH and does not know the difference. I also believe a Trojan 16 would have been Mod. and Full and not Full and Full in '17.

[Dean Romig]

Mod/Full was more typically the choking of the 26" barreled Trojan 16's

[Jerry Harlow]

Mod/Full was more typically the choking of the 26" barreled Trojan 16's

According to The Parker Story (pg. 243) the 1913 flyer showed 16s and 20s as 28" mod. and full only. "We will accept no orders with exact specifications, nor will we deviate from the above dimensions in any particular."

So had they changed by 1917? It says that not until 1926 does it show the 26" available in their catalog. So if it is a Trojan, when they began boring chokes to the customer's request is the question. I was just guessing that so close to the start of production (1912) a full and full 16 Trojan would probably not be seen in 1917. Of course his choke measurements could be off. And a 0 frame for a 16 Trojan, in 1917 would have been a rare one. Just an opinion.

[rufus thames]

Just maybe some one on the forum would love to have this gun through you. Just a thought.
Rufus T

[Dean Romig]

In the realm of Parkers we 'never say never'. I had a Trojan 16 with 26" barrels choked Mod/Full with about 3 3/4" of choke in the right barrel and almost 4 1/4" of choke in the left barrel. Both chokes had between 1/4" and 3/8" of parallel walls at the muzzle. It was all original except that it had been very nicely refinished sometime in the more recent past. It was made in 1923 and the serial number is 202066. You can read about it in "Parkers Found" in Parker Pages. More recently the blurb about this Trojan has been condensed but if you grab an issue from 2009 or 2010 you can read the full text about this gun. It is on the 1-frame but is lighter than some of my 0-frame sixteens.

Incidentally, my brother-in-law now owns the gun and he lives about eight miles from me so I can measure the exact choke constriction if it is important to anyone.

Best, Dean

[Jerry Harlow]

Dean,

Certainly Parker changed it's mind on whether they would vary from their firm position on what could be had in a Trojan. I was just making the point to Harold that this gun has two strikes against it being a Trojan based on the phone conversation; but if it is, as you say it is a rare bird indeed, especially in 1917. Or someone knew someone at Parker or one of the employees had it built that way. The jury is still out on what it really is though.

[Dean Romig]

Dean,
The jury is still out on what it really is though.

Absolutely correct Jerry. Seeing is believing so we'll just wait and see.

The gun needs to be held in hand and every detail examined closely.

[Bill Murphy]

A seller who cannot identify a Trojan from a VH is not likely to own a bore micrometer. This gun is probably a nice 0 frame VH. Or it could actually be a Trojan with 0 mark on the lug, in which case it is probably a 20 gauge. Either way, it's probably a good deal if it has no other problems. If you could tell us the serial number, we likely could tell you exactly what you are considering.

[Brian Dudley]

Like all the Gunbroker listings for VH guns that have Troajn Steel barrels (actually Trojan guns).

[Harold Lee Pickens]

I will probably look into the gun further. It's about 40 miles downriver from me( Ohio River), right in the middle of what used to be great grouse hunting in the Wayne National Forest.
The man also said he had a "set" of Lefevers, a 12, 16, 20, and 410. Obviously he has Lefever Nitro Specials ,as I don't believe Uncle Dan made any 410's, but I could be wrong.

[Bill Murphy]

Years ago, I answered an ad for a "set of Remington doubles". My Dad and I went out to look. Sure enough, the fellow had a nice trio of Remington 1889s, 10, 12, and 16. Somehow, the condition or the price was unacceptable, so we passed. Many years later, I ended up in the same house to arrange for the Remington guy to marry my first wife and me. My oldest stepdaughter was dating his son. I don't believe I mentioned the Remingtons to him.

[Brian Dudley]

I own a 26" Trojan in 16g. Uncut length. On the typical 1 frame.
Very early Trojan with the rib extension.

[Jerry Harlow]

Brian,

How early?

[Brian Dudley]

Serial 196487. 1921

I thought it might have been earlier due to the rib extension before I checked the serial number.

[Jerry Harlow]

It would be so simple to look at the serialization book (never crossed my mind until now). Just a quick glance:

171294 16 ga 26" late 1915

171357 12 ga 26" late 1915

172051 20 ga 26" late 1915

Everything before that conforms to their standard offerings (a quick glance revealed none but I can't guarantee I did not miss one). So in late 1915 after three plus years and a very large run of standard offerings that did not vary from their steadfast rules these "short barreled" guns start showing up in small runs at first and then larger ones to the point where the short barreled 16s and 20s were as numerous as their 28" predecessors. But not so for the 12s. Twenty-six inch 12 gauge guns are out of the ordinary during the early Parker Trojan years from what I see.