New user/ Trying to ID a Parker Bro. SXS 12 Guage

[Bill Sandefur]

"Special Notice: On the early lifters, the serial number is on the water table, the forend iron, the trigger guard and the side of the barrel lug. The number on the barrel flats is the Order Number, not the serial number."

I copied the above off this site. Just bought a PB side by side in a 12 gauge with external hammers.

The gun was made in 1880
The serial numbers on the barrel lug, the trigger guard and the forend arm are all the same.
However, the number on the water table is different. There is no "grade" marking on the water table. Only a 5 digit number and a pat. date 03/16/1875

On the barrel flat there is #"46", the letter "T" and the Pat. date 4/11/1876

The # on the barrel lug is "02".

Can anyone help me understand all these numbers?

This is my first time on this site. Thanks in advance for your help

[Rick Losey]

can you post pictures, and the serial numbers

is it a lifter?

one option is that it may be a composed gun

[Bill Sandefur]

I hope the photos are attached. Thanks for your help,

Bill

[Bill Sandefur]

Being new to this, Im not sure how to post photos.
The number on the Barrel Lug, Trigger guard, and the Forend arm is 17680
The number on the water table is 19445
Thanks, Bill

[Bill Sandefur]

Hopefully this worked.

Bill

[Brian Dudley]

If the number on the water table differs from the rest of the gun, then it is a non-matching gun. It is odd that all of those other numbers match and not the frame. But... Who knows.

At the southern this year, I was looking at a gun with Mr. Hoover that he owned and it appeared to have actually been re-framed. It was a super early serial number, but had all sorts of later features to the frame and other parts. The frame was numbered to the earlier barrels, but with later stamps. Kind of hard to explain, but trust me, it was interesting.

If you order a letter, Your gun COULD show some sort of factory return that may shed some light on it.

But likely it is an after the fact creation made up of two different guns.

[Bill Sandefur]

Again, Thanks for your help...Bill

[Bill Sandefur]

Just as interesting is that Parker says that both numbers were manufactured in 1880 and there is no "order number" on the barrel flat. .

[Brian Dudley]

The barrel flat order numbers were being phased out by this time. The numbers are less than 2,000 apart. And Parker was making that or more each year of production.

The last 17,000 series gun I owned had no order number on it.
Also, guns made for inventory likely did not have order numbers stamped on them. Just my thought. This gun being an 0 grade could have been a gun made for inventory.

[Dave Suponski]

Some early lifters with the "No radius frame" were prone to cracking and were rebuilt at the factory with the new radius frame design. I would think that Parker would have serial numbered the new frame to the original barrels but maybe this is not the case.

[Chuck Bishop]

A research letter will not do any good to explain this. The order books show two separate guns made, not a repair to replace the frame.

[Bill Sandefur]

Thanks for your help. How do I tell if mine is the no radius frame or not?

[Brian Dudley]

Yours does have the radius.
The transition from the water table to the standing breech is the area we speak of. Yours has a small radius at that point. Earlier Parkers are a hard 90 degree angle at this point.
Parker made the switch before your gun was made.

[Bill Murphy]

Deleted

[Bill Sandefur]

Brian,

Having seen photos of my Parker, what would you guess as to it's value?

Thanks, Bill

[Brian Dudley]

PM sent regarding value.

[Austin J Hawthorne Jr.]

How common is this issue of nonradiused lifter frames cracking and are there any warning signs that are apparent by a visual inspection? I personally keep pressures and payloads low but who knows what these guns were subjected to in the past

[Brian Dudley]

Any gun of that age is likely going to be fired with care these days and with he right loads.
I would not think cracking of these frames today should be of any concern.

Though cracking in this area my well have been observed over the years, I am not aware if Parker made the change as a precautionary measure or as a reactionary measure. That topic is likely subject for speculation.

[Dave Suponski]

Read the "Parker Story." I have seen several. In fact one cracked frame lifter was at last years Vintagers in Rhode Island.

[Bill Sandefur]

Thanks for the link for disassembling my shotgun. I have it taken apart. I don't think it has ever been cleaned. Now the trick is to put it back together... :)

[Bill Sandefur]

Good morning. Thanks for you help with my Parker.
I took it apart to clean it and am having a hard time re installing the firing pins. Any ideas as to how to get them to line up with the hole? Thanks, Bill

[Brian Dudley]

The spring goes in first against the top side of the bolster. Then the firing pin drops in. you kind of have to tip the pin upward towards 2 o'clock to get it to fall in. The spring does not go around the pin. It sits against the offset step.

I hope that all makes sense.

[Steve Huffman]

Bill,
From the last pictures I see of your gun it looks to be off face meaning there is a gap between the standing breech and the barrels . I would address this before firing your gun.

[Bill Zachow]

Back in my early Parker collecting days, I ordered two "excellent" condition lifter Parkers from a Minnesota gun dealer by way of "Shotgun News"' the pre internet way of broadening your gun buying. Not only were they in "excellent" condition, they were "all original". When they came, one had a cracked frame and the other, cut barrels. The dealer returned my money with the comment that he was not an expert on Parkers but I obviously was. The crack extended back 3/8th of an inch into the standing breach. The barrels on the cut gun were short without keels.

[Brian Dudley]

Plenty of guns still being sold like that today. By those who are not experts in Parkers. Or even guns in general for that matter.

[Bill Sandefur]

Again, you've been a huge help. I was putting the spring around the pin.

Bill

[Brian Dudley]

I thought that might have been what was going on. That is a relatively common mistake.