Parker Pages

[Greg Baehman]

The Summer 2014 issue of Parker Pages made it to my mailbox today jammed full of interesting articles, pics and stories. Dave Suponski's Parker Barrels Fluid Steel Barrel Study was the 1st that I read and is most enlightening. Got to get back to it now as there is much more to read and enjoy. Thanks! :bowdown:

[Bill Murphy]

Wow. What a great issue. I have to sit down and read to comment. As always, I have to give the greatest credit to my friend Dean Romig for bringing us this issue to our homes. I can't believe we have found a successor to Austin Hogan who meets or exceeds the previous editor for quality of product. Dean has reached that level. Thanks, Dean. I'm sorry I didn't get to spend some quality time with you at the Northeast Shoot. Murphy

[Dean Romig]

I feel the same way Bill, that we didn't get to visit much at all.... so much to see and to do at Hausmann's. We missed Linda this time and I hope you tell her so too.

Thank so much for the compliment but I don't think I'll ever fill Austin's editorial shoes... but I'll certainly keep on trying!

[Bill Murphy]

We will come to expect Dean's humility concerning his expertise in publishing and editing the Parker Pages, but our job is to keep him in place. Thank you, Dean.

[charlie cleveland]

i too got my parker pages today..first thing i read was the steel issue of the barrels..thanks to dean and all the rest for this storey..we can now know for sure that it was a marketing stradgy of them smart yankees..it worked.....that all the steel checked is the same steel...charlie

[Dean Romig]

I think I will re-read Dave Suponski's article - that's not how I interpreted Dave's information Charlie.

Dean

[Eric Grims]

Steve Kleist' article "OWE" hit home and was well appreciated on my end. I don't think I could own a gun that I didn't shoot and hopefully shoot as much as I could which has me buying those OWE guns he describes. Tough decisions on which parker gets to go afield or to the range some days but they all get their turn.
Thanks

[Mark Conrad]

I am a little confused. The percentage of components varies for each steel. In some cases there is a significant difference. The carbon content is close but the other components are not. In the next to the last paragraph Dave states that PB used basically the same steel in their barrels and used a good marketing strategy.

So Dave, can you give us more information on how you arrived at your conclusion. And, thanks for taking on this project.

[Larry Frey]

Mark,
I have not read Dave's article yet as I just received my PP but can say that in every grade of steel there is a range in which each component may fall. I also want to thank Dave for seeing this project thru and look forward to reviewing this article.

[Steve Cambria]

I too, just received Parker Pages last evening. A tip of my hat to Dean for what looks to be an outstanding issue! Sadly, unless you have worked on the back end of one of these publications, so few realize the degree of difficulty in getting it out the door. Actually, it is quite humbling to us in the AHFCA, that you manage to hit the mark 4X a year. I know first hand how much sweat and toil my esteemed colleague Mr. Noreen endures, to get our semi-annual "Weekly Reader rag sheet" (no offense Dave!!) into the mail. Again, I applaud Dean and his staff for the phenomenal job they do and sincerely hope the PGCA membership appreciates the consummate professional they have at their service. :bowdown:

[John Campbell]

I am a little confused. The percentage of components varies for each steel. In some cases there is a significant difference. The carbon content is close but the other components are not. In the next to the last paragraph Dave states that PB used basically the same steel in their barrels and used a good marketing strategy.

Many factors work toward Parker using one fluid steel for barrels: Cost, sourcing, production simplicity and functional practicality. It's much easier to put a romantic name on a top rib than complicate your business with a host of steel formulas. The marketing staff does the rest.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Finished the Parker Pages last night. Great job! The technical stuff is good, but after getting slammed with patients all day, it is the light-hearted reading I enjoy most. COB's article on the last hunt of the year with Daisy and Gunners gun took me back to hunting in the UP with Daisy and Rich, and the first time I saw Gunners' gun at Rich's cabin. I can really relate to OWE guns.
I actually like using old beat up guns, used hard and put away wet, as they say. They probably have much more interesting stories to tell than their pristine counterparts. I wonder who would take such poor care of my latest aquisistion, a VHE 20 with barrels cut to 26 1/2" and cyl/cyl. Rough bores, cracked stock, and no bluing. I think to thank me for rescuing it, I shot a 41 with it on the competition course at Hausmann's on Sunday wit Edgar and Allan, but of course I had registered as just shooting for practice and later found out that Mike of the Mountain won the 20 ga event with a score of 41.
Had I been shooting for score, I'm sure I would have choked.
Good job Dean, and all involved

[Dave Suponski]

Mark, As Larry mentions each type of steel carries a range of elements and these vary by manufactorer. Also they will vary by the era they were made in. All these samples tested clearly fall into the mild steel range. Ever hear anybody say how easy Parker barrels dented? I have! I again would like to publicly thank Edgar our resident metalurgest for all his help in making all the results readable to the layman. This article is the end result of over 15 years of trying. I hope you all enjoy it.

[Chris Travinski]

Great article Dave, it was the first thing I flipped to. And yes, Edgar is a smart fart. Always a good time when he's around.

[Mark Conrad]

Dave, thanks for your clarification and thanks for taking the time to finally get an answer to the question.

So an extra set of barrels for an A1S was $250 and an extra set for a VH was $25. And, they were the same barrels less the engraving. Wow, you can see where the profit was.

[edgarspencer]

So an extra set of barrels for an A1S was $250 and an extra set for a VH was $25. And, they were the same barrels less the engraving. Wow, you can see where the profit was.

Mark, the highest grade Dave had available for analysis was Titanic, so I wouldn't make the assumption Acme and Peerless were necessarily the same specification.

[Mark Conrad]

Ed, I agree but my point is they didn't have much money in the barrels made with American steel. Whitworth was another story.

I heard a story once about the first .410's made with tubes supplied by Ithaca. The usual Parker barrel steel names were used on those guns.

[edgarspencer]

I'd like to add a thought that has been bothering me since Dave first called me to discuss the results he had gotten back.
It wouldn't be necessarily correct to make the assumption, based upon the chemistry alone, that the lower grade barrel steels were essentially the same, or fell within the same specification.
Part of the process in making steel is achieving the chemical analysis of the melt, while still in the furnace, so that it meets that portion of a specification. Another equally important portion of the manufacturers ability to meet a specification is to also heat treat the material so that it meets the physical requirements. These requirements, at a minimum, include Yield Strength, UTS (Ultimate Tensile Strength) Elongation, and Reduction of Area. These requirements are determined by heat treating with the product, a test bar from the same melt, then machining the test bar to the requirements of one of the several profiles used in Tensile Testing Machines. Varying the temperatures of heat treatment, and the method of cooling from those temps, can make one material, whose chemistry meets a plain scoop of vanilla, to a butterscotch sundae, with whipped cream, nuts and a cherry.
Our larger melt furnaces had capacities of 40,000 lbs. When the furnaces were tapped, into a ladle (hung from a 50 ton overhead crane) garden variety castings were regularly poured from the same heat as propulsion turbine cases for GE Steam Turbine. one casting may have a selling price of $2.50/lb, and another, $10, or more. There is a lot that goes into the processing of steel beyond simply meeting a chemical analysis.
Its unfortunate Dave didn't have samples of a sufficient size to also do physical testing.

[Dave Suponski]

Mark, We were only able to test samples up to Titanic Steel.If I ever get samples of Acme and Peerless they will be tested also.

Another thought that popped into my head after the article was sent to Dean was. Could Parker Bros. have decided to label the barrel steel type by the degree of finishing they perfomed on the finished barrel set? We know that as the grades went higher so did the degree of barrel finish. Just food for thought....

[Greg Baehman]

It has often been stated that Parker Reproductions were better than Parker Bros. guns because they used modern steels. Wouldn't it be enlightening to know if Parker Repro steel was truly better and have them analyzed, too?

[Mark Conrad]

Dave, you may want to check with Kirk Merrington to see if he has and Acme or Peerless.

[charlie cleveland]

dean did you re read the storey..i came up the same that the test on what barrels were tested were of the same steel..somebody else tell me if i am reading this wrong.. charlie

[Dean Romig]

Charlie, I had the same take that Mark Conrad had, e.g., that there were differences, however slight, in the measured elements in the test samples.

Re: the Repro barrel steel... these are made of modern chromium/molybdenum steel.

[edgarspencer]

It has often been stated that Parker Reproductions were better than Parker Bros. guns because they used modern steels. Wouldn't it be enlightening to know if Parker Repro steel was truly better and have them analyzed, too?

Remington was using chrome moly barrels on those Parkers made in Illion,but it isn't as though the repro makers had a choice as all barrel tube makers use chrome moly today. Better? Not sure that
s the word I'd use. Reliability issues for the numbers made don't support it, and they certainly have their wood issues. Until I bought my GHE 28, I was considering a repro 28, so now, I don;t think swapping any of my Parkers for any gauge/grade repro would happen.

[Greg Baehman]

Remington was using chrome moly barrels on those Parkers made in Illion,but it isn't as though the repro makers had a choice as all barrel tube makers use chrome moly today. Better? Not sure that
s the word I'd use. Reliability issues for the numbers made don't support it, and they certainly have their wood issues. Until I bought my GHE 28, I was considering a repro 28, so now, I don;t think swapping any of my Parkers for any gauge/grade repro would happen.
Ooops, it looks like I touched on a touchy subject. Forget about the suggestion of testing Repro barrels as the findings might not yield the preferred results for some. ;)

[Mills Morrison]

I felt the same way about Repros until I bought one. It is a great gun. They are not original Parkers, but good in their own right.

[edgarspencer]

As I previously said, Had I not found an original GHE 28 gauge, I would have seriously looked for and, in all likelihood, purchased a reproduction of a Parker 28 gauge. There are no real unfilled voids in my collection, of guns I have an intended use, such as upland hunting, trap, skeet or sporting clays. When I see a Parker that particularly strikes my fancy, and I can afford it, I step up, or shed something else, to make it happen. I have to honestly say that while I agree reproductions are well made, I have yet to see one that lights me up the way a well cared for, mid to high condition original gun does.

[Dean Romig]

Edgar's talking about an intangible persona - a karma - a 'life' from beyond our ken.

Someday our Repros will have it too... but first they must earn it.




.

[Frank Srebro]

I really enjoyed Dave's article with the barrel steel analyses. Just for info, here's another company's approach to barrel steel. I assume the reference to "bursting force" for 1913 readers, would translate to "yield strength" for MechE's.

http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b450/silvers897/1913-Aug12-2_zpsa8f0e176.jpg (http://s1044.photobucket.com/user/silvers897/media/1913-Aug12-2_zpsa8f0e176.jpg.html)

[edgarspencer]

Edgar's talking about an intangible persona - a karma - a 'life' from beyond our ken..

Yeah, something like that. I guess. Oh, OK, I have no idea what you said, but I know you do, so it must be so.

[Dean Romig]

Yeah, something like that. I guess. Oh, OK, I have no idea what you said, but I know you do, so it must be so.


It's something we attribute to the old guns... the guns acquire it in almost the same way they acquire 'patina'... through use and good times spent with these guns.

[Mike Franzen]

Thanks Dean for all the work you do.