Fluid Steel BBLs with Damascus Rib?

[Sam Hershfield]

Here's an interesting one. I just sent my Parker GH off to have the stock repaired or replaced and the barrels "de-blued". The professional who just got the gun says he doesn't think they are Damascus. And he's worked with a lot of Parkers. Is that possible? Could the factory have made a mistake in 1891?

[Bruce Day]

An experienced person can always tell the difference between Damascus , Twist, and fluid steel, even if the differential browning is removed to leave silver barrels.

The uncertainty about the barrel composition raises concerns for me.

Two blade Damascus with browning removed, leaving silver barrels. The croille pattern is still there when a person looks closely. A magnifying glass may be necessary. A dye may be used to enhance the differential pattern, as iron and steel will absorb dye at different rates.

A person looking at Damascus barrels with browning removed might be initially confused as they look much like fluid steel with bluing removed. However, speaking from my own experience, I have always been able to spot the pattern although I have had to look very closely. I'm sure there are many others who can see the differences faster than me.

In 1891, there are no known G grade Parkers with fluid steel barrels, at least none identified in TPS, none I have seen or heard of. Damascus barrels were a main selling point of the G grade in those years.

[Sam Hershfield]

An experienced person can always tell the difference between Damascus , Twist, and fluid steel, even if the differential browning is removed to leave silver barrels.

BD, thanks for getting back. The gunsmith who is looking at the barrels is one of the most recommended on PGCA. That's why I'm wondering.

[John Campbell]

Mr. Hershfield:
What barrels/ribs Parker fitted up in 1891 was entirely at the discretion of the purchaser and/or Parker craftsman. Theories are often just that. If I were you, I'd trust the pro...

[Dean Romig]

Other than Whitworth Steel, what other fluid-pressed steel barrels were available from Parker Bros. in 1891????

[Bill Murphy]

A look at the barrel flat markings may generate a clue. The barrels could be sleeved, but the breech would still be Damascus. "Doesn't think they are Damascus" doesn't sound like a comment that would come from a gunsmith we would recommend. Either they are or they aren't Damascus.

[Bruce Day]

Other than Whitworth Steel, what other fluid-pressed steel barrels were available from Parker Bros. in 1891????

Exactly. I had been working on a response for the last 15 minutes saying that which sounded right. I just don't think its reasonable or rational that this G has Whitworth barrels, but if so, it will have the Whitworth wheat sheaf and numbered barrels, so please post photos.

Bill is also dead on right. There will be a D mark on the flats, and a skilled person can tell Damascus from fluid steel.

[Sam Hershfield]

Here are BBL close ups. Any Damascus there?

[Bruce Day]

yes.. Clearly. Its a coarse croille pattern.

You showed these barrels before, and I thought but did not say, that these had a lot of brown patina on them that covered the Damascus pattern. It is either that , or they may have been blued. We have found a few instances where either Parker or somebody early on blued Damascus barrels, and like as not , those examples have a lot of Damascus segment mismatches both between barrels and along a single barrel. A person may or may not find that attractive. I have seen the segment mismatching only on G's and it is something I believe Parker people look for, I certainly do. We have scant evidence that Parker blued Damascus barrels to hide mismatching but there is some evidence.

[Brad Bachelder]

I agree with Bruce, they sure look like "D" Damascus to me. How many Parker barrels has your "pro" restored ?

Brad

[Bruce Day]

This was a no brainer to tell they are Damascus. I thought they were going to be polished silver, which is harder to tell and takes a more practiced eye. Brad is one of the two or three gunsmiths that does a lot of this work and has the unhesitating recommendation of many experienced Parker collectors here. I greatly admire Brad's work. And Dale Edmonds is close by and I think he has done nice work also.

The following photo is of matched and consistent coarse or D Damascus on a G a few years earlier than your gun. Your Damascus pattern hopefully looks like this under the rust browning. These barrels are original with some age patina, the blackish color of your barrels generally occurs from unprotected exposure to humidity. If that is bluing on yours, it would raise concerns for me, but you will not know until stripped and re-browned to see what you have.

[Brian Dudley]

Based on the photos, it looks like you can faintly see the Damascus pattern under the rust blue. Especially on the rib, but also some in the barrels. And this was pointed out to you in your other thread.
Photos can be deceiving, but these barrels are most likely 100% Damascus.

There is no way to fully hide Damascus pattern. Even when rust blued. In the right light, and in the right spots, you can make out some trace of the pattern. Even polished Damascus will show pattern.

I thought you were selling this gun? Decided to keep it?

[Brad Bachelder]

The top and bottom ribs are correct. The breach band engraving is Parker. The address line is consistant with Damascus. I assume that the barrel flat markings are correct.
Parker barrels under C Grade were only polished to around 320 grit.Many refinishers belielve they are improving the blue job by polishing to much higher grits and removing original marks. The experts look for those marks when judging a blue job.
When Damascus is polished to 600 grit or above it becomes difficult to see any trace of the patterns . This may be the case with your barrels.

Brad

[Bill Murphy]

Who is this gunsmith "recommended" by PGCA members who cannot recognize Damascus barrels?

[chris dawe]

Definitely there ,no Question .