Is there a suppport group??

[Jack Cronkhite]

Okay, so I'm minding my own business and check the email and GA has a wishlist item pop up. I look and say leave it alone but ask the seller a few questions anyway. Any good reasons to pass??

How about

1. The kids need new shoes (nope, they are grown and gone)
2. I don't need it (true, but what about wanting??)
3. Valentine's day is fast approaching and I know this isn't for her
4. Those kind of barrels routinely blow up just looking at them
5. It looks unmolested so it probably has totally seized up innards
6. Way too many handling marks for the exorbitant price tag
7. It only has 28" barrels so probably hacked off 32 incher
8. I'm really looking for SN 27631 not the jumbled version 176023
9. It only has extractors
10. I won't have to worry because after posting the link I will have become an enabler for another poor addict.

If it is still on there 3 days from now and no one has given a good reason to pass, I may have to scratch the itch again.

Cheers,
Jack

http://www.gunsamerica.com//933125082/Guns/Shotguns/Parker-Shotguns/Parker_Brothers_12ga_SxS.htm?wl=1

[E Robert Fabian]

I think you have to go with # 4:shock:

[Dave Suponski]

I think 10 will probably happen....:rolleyes:

[Pete Lester]

Let's ask John Dunkle to create a support group forum for those collectors who believe or were told they may be addicted. We can all get on-line at predetermined times. There will be 12 steps to recovery and each person can start out introducing themselves in humble fashion ex. My name is E. Robert Fabian, I live in Strafford NH and I have a problem...........:rotf:

[Jack Cronkhite]

Geez Dave, now you have me reconsiderng the time frame. I had to recover the listing from trash and instead of 3 days, I will wait 3 hours. In all humility: My name is Jack. I live in a frozen wasteland. I have a problem....

[Marc Retallack]

Jack

Perhaps you should consider moving south of the 49th. I'm sure you could find a doctor to sign off on your addiction, allowing you to collect social security disability. It would certainly afford you more time to "nurse" your affliction;).

[Dean Romig]

I was going to say something about the benefits of group therapy... but in rethinking the possibility I have come to the conclusion that we should really be seperated from one-another and shouldn't even be allowed to communicate with each-other. This is not just a disease that can be transmitted through bodily contact or even breathing the same air but can be contracted by merely communicating via e-mail, PMs or even posting on threads like this :coffee:

[Jack Cronkhite]

A Parker Pandemic :eek: I think Dean is bang on. I lived most my life with one Parker in it. Then it had a problem. I came here for help. Now I really need help My name is Jack..................................

[Dave Suponski]

Can we use an alias? My name is "Old Pollock" and there is this certain 16gauge O Frame in my future. This time I think I will use the rationale of "Geez they aren,t makin these anymore so I better get it now".

Oh Well....So Step one is recognizing I have a problem....Ya I have a problem all right...not enough cash....:crying:

[Eric Eis]

It bit again :eek: 12 ga DH damascus 30" barrels, not messed with so it came home with me today and yes it was another Parker member that told me about it so I think Dean is right "No communication with any other Parker owners, period.":nono:

[Dave Suponski]

Eric,Believe me I tried that it doesn't work....:throw:

[Eric Eis]

Dave, I don't think my wife wanted to hear that..............:rotf:

[Jason Boshers]

I was going to say something about the benefits of group therapy... but in rethinking the possibility I have come to the conclusion that we should really be seperated from one-another and shouldn't even be allowed to communicate with each-other. This is not just a disease that can be transmitted through bodily contact or even breathing the same air but can be contracted by merely communicating via e-mail, PMs or even posting on threads like this :coffee:

Very true.

I have a couple of other "gunaholic" buddies that make my wife cringe when we get together. We are in complete uspport of each other with says such as "When was the last time you saw one ... that nice?" and "You know that is a good price, remember the one we saw at the show that looked like it had been used as a boat paddle!":rotf:

[Francis Morin]

With due apologies to both Gen. Douglas MacArthur and The Grateful Dead-- Nice 12- PH or GH with the Twist barrels? I don't buy from the auction sites, but as someone once said "Just because a man is on a diet doesn't mean he can't peruse the menu all he wants"--

Dave, I think you'd like the PH 16 with 26" Twist barrels on the 0 frame I recently bought- and had lettered- shipped off to a dealer in Maine in June 1908- with 26" barrels as ordered. Brother Harry Collins helped me get a replacement top lever spring, and you also gave me some good details on the King 18 pc. action design-

It works fine (albiet with snap caps- haven't gotten any BP loads yet-) and the other day I showed it to a member of our Hunt Club- he is an over-under man (mainly the Italian guns) and a fine shot- when he put it up to his shoulder (I hadn't told him it was a 16) just that it was a 100 year old Parker, his remark to me was "Wow, a 20 gauge- what a sweet well balanced double"

I think part and parcel of the "Parkeritis" that bites so many of us severly at times is- many of us here are getting "long in the tooth" and we yearn for the boyhood days afield with parent and grandparents- No condos or golf courses, no Posted signs, rural folks all knew each other and knew how to be good neighbors, you could buy a M12, a Ithaca NID, shells and even dynamite and fuse from any rural hardware store in America's heartland without question-- Times have sure changed- I think the late Robert Ruark predicted this in one of his stories "Same Knife, Different Boy"- :duck:

[Lee St.Clair]

Oh my goodness....you guys are too funny!!!
Shall we guess which 1 I vote for? Number 3!!!
A support group? hmmmm......have been a nurse for 25 years...and spent a 'few' of those as a nurse in a prison(only place they would pay me to tell men what to do). So I am pretty good at 'advising' men. I think I would be a pretty good facillitater of this group. First order of business will be my fees. You will have little left to buy any more Parkers with....and my single Parker will soon have company!!!:rotf:

[Jack Cronkhite]

Ahhh Francis, now we wax philosophically. Those were glory days (to rob from the Boss) and much missed. As a kid I was able to rent a gun for a friend for the day so he could come deer hunting - no questions asked. One day I was at an airport just because it was fun to watch the planes. A passenger jet landed and I had not seen such a machine up close and personal. I walked into the airport and asked an old security guard (just one in the whole place) if I could have a look at that plane. He said sure, so I walked out, climbed the ramp, had a look around, came back and said thanks. All my guns are "old", newest being a pump I bought as my first brand new gun and a little .22/.410 shortly thereafter (circa 1970). The oldest ones are recently acquired and a result of being "helped" here. I am lucky enough to still be able to find good habitat to hunt upland birds with permission from land owners, I would enjoy another day in the field with Dad and his hunting friends but my "teeth are getting long", putting me at the thin end of the wedge of the ever thinning hunting fraternity. Time waits for nobody (Freddy Mercury)

[David Hamilton]

Jack, We down here in the South where it is warm and balmy are being subjected to some our your "frozen wastland" weather. Please take it back! I refuse to get addicted to it. So unfair. Does shooting at the storm help? Please advise! David

[Jack Cronkhite]

Jack, We down here in the South where it is warm and balmy are being subjected to some our your "frozen wastland" weather. Please take it back! I refuse to get addicted to it. So unfair. Does shooting at the storm help? Please advise! David

David: No, no, no.......... You don't want it taken back. It is not unfair. Did you not get the memo? It has been sent as a gift. Yes, you can shoot at the storm and it is really really good. It will enhance your opportunities for great Sunday dinners because the ducks and geese are low and slow and routinely pass through the shot patterns launched. Now if you don't like that environment to exercise your Parker, then be very careful about shooting at the storm only. You will risk seeding the clouds, thereby causing even greater precipitation and even better shooting for others who know of what I speak. (Beware though, as some of them carry pumps, O/U's and autos, increasing the risk of expanding a simple Parker addiction to yet another level)
Cheers and brrrrrrrr

Jack

Now, back to the deck for my iced yet somehow steaming libation. Here the glass is always half full because you can't get further than that before it becomes a lump of ice

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/normal_20080213_IMG_9999_8sgw.JPG

[Rich Anderson]

Jack your in luck regarding the support group. I am thinking of opening a Canadian branch of Parkers by O.P.M (other peoples money) where as I am the CFO and CPO (Chief Parker Officer) I'll need someone to head the Canadian office. Were a small grass roots organization and meet in the fall of designated coverts that are kept secret (so know one shows up with a new 28ga) untill the last possible minute.

When the itch strikes a member he contacts his handler who guides him through the withdrawl process usually with the help of some members from Tennesse down around Lynchburg way. Once all the pros and cons have been sorted out and an intelligent and rational decision is reached can the member be released from therapy by his handler.

If this method of treatment proves unsuccesful (as it usually does) then ALL Parkers, Fox's, Ithaca's, W21's and even M70's are sent to the handler until the afflicted member sufficently recovers his good sence. In extreme cases his computer is confiscated and he becomes barred from sites such as Gunbroker, Guns International, Gun Room etc.

This is a proven method and as both safes are full its working.....I'm not in need of a third safe......yet:duck:

[Jack Cronkhite]

Probably too late for me. Third safe needed. I suppose I may qualify for VP (Verified Parkerholic)

[Rich Anderson]

Woah is me as I stumbeled into a GH 16ga 0 frame at a gun show yesterday. She is serial # 70xxx (I can't remembr the rest) and has good wood, perfect screws, good demensions and 30 inch damascuss bbls. Bore diameter is 662/668 and min wall thickness is 33 thousandths. A barrel lug repair is the only downside.

I ponder the pro's and con's:banghead::banghead:

[Dave Suponski]

We have already have had this conversation: Step 1 Admit you have a problem.Step 2 Buy the damn gun Step 3 Refer to step 1 :fg:

[Jack Cronkhite]

Pro (only one needed) = Parker
Cons: Concept Causes Confusion when Pro=Parker

[Rich Anderson]

After careful deliberation and consultation I have decided to take the high road and pass on this wonderfull Parker for many reasons none of which lie with the gun. Just to many irons in the fire and to many other places to put $4K.

See my program does work!:crying:

[Francis Morin]

The little 0 frame PH 16 with 26" twist barrels has a wall thickness at muzzles of: 0.030" right barrel, 0.037" left barrel-- at breech area 0.143" right barrel, 0.143 left barrel-- I have thought about a wall thickness gauge as an addition to my gunroom/toolroom items- I have seen barrel men use them at various side-by events, what is the best make and model and place to buy one- new or used?? Thanks

[Dean Romig]

Check Brownell's offerings.

[Bill Murphy]

The Manson gauge at Brownell's. Not real easy to use, but cheap. Someone at the Vintagers showed me a trick that makes it easier to use than the way we were originally taught. The "hanging" method is actually not the best for home use. Live and learn.

[Dean Romig]

Bill, please explain the better method, if you would.

Dean

[Jack Cronkhite]

A link (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=20463/Product/WALL_THICKNESS_GAUGE) to the Manson gauge at Brownell's. First I have seen at a low price. Interested in Bill's better method also.

[Richard Flanders]

That $100 price from Brownells is the cheapest I've ever seen for a Manson. If I didn't already have one I'd do that in a heartbeat.

[Dean Romig]

That's the one I bought from Brownell's more than a year ago for the same price (I think).

Hello, Bill? Please explain the better method...

[Bill Murphy]

The method involves using the Manson gauge in a horizontal position with the barrels in a vise, not too good for gun show use unless you have a table. I already have a hanging ring on the end opposite the micrometer. You may need to install one in the hole supplied. This ring should be large enough to conveniently run your finger through it to support that end without exerting side pressure. Zero the micrometer with the gauge in a horizontal position, holding the non micrometer rod at the ball end while zeroing. Run the non micrometer rod into the barrel and read your micrometer at any point in the barrel. Notice there is no problem with wavering readings as long as you use the ring to support the non micrometer end. The vise held barrels eliminate the wavering and false readings we get when using the hanging method. The disadvantage is that the barrels must be rotated in the vise to measure different surfaces of the barrels. I still like this method better than the hanging method when I have access to padded vises. I have not seen a vise that rotates around the horizontal axis, but that vise would be ideal in that the vise could be rotated to measure all surfaces of the barrels without removing the barrels from the vise.

[Bill Murphy]

Jon Hosford's beautiful new bore gauge works by a similar method, but measures a bunch of gauges and comes in a fitted wood box. Jon is a great guy. When I told him I owned a Manson gauge and couldn't afford one of his great tools, he showed me how to use my $100 gauge to work like his. Now who else would do that? He will probably be at the Southern demonstrating his gauge. Stop by and say "hi".

[tom leshinsky]

Bill, you could put a tapered dowel in the vise that fits in the bbl end or breach and then rotate the bbls.
Rather than lock the bbls in the vise. Of course you need set to accomidate
different gauges.
Hosford has a video with instuctions on how to use his gauge.

[Richard Flanders]

Sounds like a good method Bill. Have to think about putting a ring in my Manson. There are rotating vises to be had. I see two in the latest Rutland master catalog, one a nice Wilton, the other likely a Chinese knockoff but v. nice looking and only $81.

[Carl Brandt]

Here is a link to John Hosford's website with a video of how to measure barrel wall thickness:

http://vimeo.com/5011609

[Dave Suponski]

Carl,

Thanks for posting that.Very nice gauge!

[Jack Cronkhite]

Hosford or Manson

Quite a price difference.

The Hosford comes nicely packaged and very portable without need for a vice. It handles .410 to 10 gauge and can be table mounted for use at gun shows, auction viewings or your own bench.

The Manson does the job but requires a vice thus not the same portability.

From cost/effectiveness perspective:

If all the work will be done in a shop, Manson may be the right gauge.

If the measurements are on the road as a collector/accumulator then Hosford may be the right gauge.

I assume both will give you the same results as far as correct measurement is concerned.

Missing anything or got something wrong??

Jack

[Francis Morin]

I'm thinking of buying the Manson gauge from Brownell's-is it USA mfg?? And where did you see a Chinese knock-off of the great Wilton vise? I have two Wiltons and a older Parker and Snow in my workshop- the Parker was from my late grand-dad's machine shop-- Call me and old-fashioned guy (and you would be 100% right about that) but I'll do without before I buy ANY tool from the oriential countries--so you can guess that I don't shop much a Wally-World-Mart either--cheap crap- the most expensive thing on a job is a cheap tool, like a "fair-weather friend" it will let you down everytime--IMO

And Jack, on another thread I believe you were discussing "Back Door" mfg. Parkers, correct. So I can learn here, are those "unknown Old Reliables" about the same breed of cat as the 'lunch box specials?""

A back Door Parker-lessee here- Parkers went out of production around 1940 in Ilion, about the same time the late Jim Morrison was born- he died in 1971, doubt if he owned any firearms, so a Back Door Parker Man- probably not!!:rolleyes:

[Bill Murphy]

Tom Leshinski is correct. The barrels can be mounted on a slightly tapered dowel and rotated without loosening and tightening the vise jaws. Of course, something has to hold the dowel. It can be a simple clamp as long as it is secure. I think Jon and I discussed this when he was giving me the block of instruction. I'm sorry this discussion isn't on a dedicated thread, but I'm sure it is available to all interested in it.

[Bill Murphy]

Jack Cronkite, the Hosford gauge will not measure 30" barrels from the muzzle. It will measure about 16" and consequently will measure 32" barrels at all points if you switch directions. The video is very informative and the tool is a wonderful piece of design. I wish Jon Hosford much luck in the sale of his instrument. I may bite the bullet some day since the ability to measure a 28 gauge barrel may pay for itself in one bad barrel discovered. Everyone should watch the video at least once.

[Eric Eis]

I have Jon's gauge, only wished I had bought six months earlier, bought a t UP shoot last summer and it's a great gauge and I found out that the little DHE damascus 16 ga that I bought from Julia's was not 30 thousands (Bill measure it for me) but 15. When I contacted Julias they told me to pound sand even though Bill manages their gun dept :banghead:. Sorry for the rant... Eric

[Jack Cronkhite]

Jack Cronkite, the Hosford gauge will not measure 30" barrels from the muzzle. ... Everyone should watch the video at least once.

Thanks Bill: I better watch it twice I thought he spoke of doing the 30" in one pass so appreciate your pointing out that error. I will edit my post to avoid confusion

Francis: I agree with you about a less than quality tool ultimately costing you. I'm understanding that both these tools will give you an accurate measurement, so quality ends up depending on how you want to use it.

I don't see the stars and stripes with the Manson at Brownell's. Here is what Brownell states on their site regarding all their products:

Made In The U.S.A.

Products marked with the Stars and Stripes are proudly made in the U.S.A.

Many customers have asked us to show which products are made in America, and we’ve begun working with our vendors to identify them. This information, however, is not available for all items nor does it imply that foreign merchandise is of lesser quality. We will continue to gather this information to assist our customers in making informed buying decisions, and will keep our website current with the latest information.

I don't have a wall thickness gauge, so can't answer your question about measuring chokes. Leave that to those who have them.


I'm still a student of all this and have learned more about guns since joining the Parker forums than all the years I shot them (hunting only).

Eric: I have only looked at Julia's, as they sell way outside my range. A little surprised to hear their response though. Was wall thickness mentioned at all in the lot info??

[Dave Suponski]

Jack and Bill,When I watched the video I thought he mentioned being able to do 32" barrels.I better watch it again....:rolleyes:

[Eric Eis]

Dave, if I remember corectly gauge is downstairs it is 16" long so yes you could do 32" barrels, as you can measure from both the front of the barrel and the chamber area. Also Jon gives you his cell number in case you have any questions and it is made here in Michigan....

Yes Jack I called them to question the wall thinkness that was posted on all three of the 16 ga guns. Bill got back to me the next day and said the catalog was wrong and proceeded to give the wall thickness for all three guns, I hope the buyers of those other two Parker 16 ga's have the wall thickness checked they maybe holding a bomb :eek:

[Dave Suponski]

Thanks Eric...:)

[Jack Cronkhite]

Francis: The "back door" discussion is here (http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1401). I would say it would be not quite the same as "lunch box specials", which, as I understand those, were stolen from companies, armed forces and then had identifying marks removed. As Dean pointed out, a "back door" Parker is not exactly verifiable. Maybe Mr. Parker appointed someone to always be "lookin' out my back door". [CCR]

[Francis Morin]

Boy do I remember CCR--what a interesting LSD trip that song was=-almost in league with Bob Dylan's Highway 61 revisited. I would trust Brownell's to tell the truth, if they state their products are all USA made, that works for me. I think I will order their Manson gauge soon- besides the 16 Parker O frame I also acquirred a 12 Smith Grade 4 with Chain Damascus barrels--As it is common for those barrels to develop pits from black powder and older primers of that era- honing them out can indeed reduce wall thickness. Miking the walls of each tube and muzzle and breech is a start, but not a guarantee.

I'm not a big fan of the Brit rock groups, but believe either Pink Floyd or Led Zepplin did a song with the "rear view mirror" tag line inserted-all good, as I always have the boom box on when in the gunroom/workshop in the basement furnace room area-Bob Seger, Bob Dylan, Steve Miller and others from the past work for me!:banghead:

[Francis Morin]

Eric- thanks for the informative post. I only know Wes Dillon at the James D. Operation in Maine, I knew him from earlier days at Cabelas. I do NOT know Bill or Mr. Julia, and I am interpreting your comment about the "sand-pounding" to mean that you are on your own with a possible mis-represented Parker 16 DHE with Damascus barrels you recently purchased there.

If that is the case, and ONLY if those are the facts, then I might suggest that Julia's is not playing smart poker. They must know you are a very active member of the PGCA and very informed about Parkers (and other firearms as well)- and if they won't make this situation right, as indeed they should, your "rant" is very much warranted here.

A friend who specializes in probate has turned over a few good shotguns to Julia's for their "reward" or finder's fee program, and was never compensated. He told me it would cost more to bring suit in Maine, travel, documentation, fair value assessment than he would gain in the end. he now works with another major gun auction house in the Midwest, and has been fairly treated there.

Julia's is supposed to have the fabled Nash Buckingham AH Fox "Bo Whoop" up for sale sometime next month. Your experience with them vis a vis the 16 DHE would make me take pause, if I were a "player" as Jack Puglisis and the "Czar's Parker" of a few years ago.

It is also my understanding that Julia's and other such houses often get a "double dip" on a sale- 15% seller's premium and the same for the buyer- so, for example hypothetically here: a BHE 28 gauge sells for an even 100 thou- I'm the consignor- so I receive t85 thou- you are the buyer so you write Julia's a check for 115 thou-- 30%- that's a hefty "Vig"-- IMO!:eek::duck::eek:

[Jack Cronkhite]

Francis: Not all Brownell's products are made in USA. Those that are are marked with the stars and stripes logo. They are still working with all suppliers to identify US made products, so there can be some in the catalogue/on-line that are US made but not yet known to be so. A work in progress for them. That's my understanding of their statement.

[Eric Eis]

Francis , I forgot to mention Wes, both he and Bill run the gun dept. I talked to Wes at the Vintagers and he went back to talk to Mr Julia and that was the reply that I got, the only offer was they would aution the gun off for me with no commision, my reply was how can you sell a gun that is unsafe.... They didn't even offer to pay back the commision fee that I paid :cuss: To me that was the least that they could have done. As I told Wes, I won't get my money back from Julia's but I will cost them far more then my cost. As of now I have already sent three guns that people asked me where to send to other aution houses or dealers on consignment. So I will get my pound of flesh just a little at a time

[tom leshinsky]

Jack, I talked to the people at Manson and they make everything except the screws and the gauge.

[Francis Morin]

I don't deal in Damascus or twist steel tubes as much as I do Nitro Proof steel tubes- but for a $100- how can you go wrong- order is en route to Brownell's- as they are in Montezuma Iowa, wonder if they give a discount to "Jarheads"- would be nice!!:corn::nono::corn:

[Fred Preston]

The only barrel I ever burst (or will, I hope) was a Vulcan. It was sawed off and probably heavily honed. I never measured it for wall thickness before I ran an ounce and a half mag through it.

[Jack Cronkhite]

Same for me - Vulcan. It was in rough shape when I got it from Dad back in late '70's. Had it all tightened up and dents/bulges removed (I suspect those spots are weakened - any comments?). In the late 90's a crack was noticed at the muzzle. The barrels got a trim. In 2003 left barrel burst with light load. It never saw magnum ammo except possibly Dad's home made "hot loads" for those long shots. So, in 2004 the barrels received more than a trim. It is now a coach gun with 18 3/8 barrels that I never mastered with upland birds, so it rests in the safe. Tried to find replacement barrels. I never did find just a set of barrels. I did get a rough gun with the thinking that the barrels would be used for the family gun. That one got me into trouble. Rather than just take the barrels, I decided it would be a shame not to attempt restoration. So then I had to find another but ended up with a nice shooter and then the "itis" got a firm grip. Then I found a nicer shooter and then I found a Trojan and with the help of this forum, I'm now an addict. Thanks for all the help.

Jack

[Dave Suponski]

No problem Jack...We are just tryin to spread the disease. Whats that phrase?"Affliction loves company"....:rolleyes:

[Francis Morin]

Hard to shake off that affliction isn't it? Sorta recalls one of the late Gene Hills' articles- "A World Without Shotguns" scary indeed--what a great writer, gunner, dog man- his aforementioned piece also makes me think of another --the title slips my mind, but I sure buy into Gene's thesis- goes along these lines- A bachelor gent who lives for fine small bore doubles and grouse and woodcock- becomes stranded on a deserted island- when he wakes up a very shapely and naked lass says "Welcome to Paradise Mr. Smithers- do you know where you are now?" Some remote island I'd guess, he replied- but why Paradise?" "Oh, come now, you can have ANYTHING you'd like, anything your dreams have ever dictated in the past" "Oh Boy Oh Boy, he said, jumping up and downlike a school boy at summer vacation-- You've got Woodcock shooting here and I hope there's a Woodward 20 bore behind your back for me"--- Yup

Of course, I might go for a BHE 10 std. 32" made in 1922, a great Retriever and a never ending supply of flight birds and shells for pass shooting supreme, but to each man, his own I guess--:cool::duck:

[Jack Cronkhite]

And good company it is. :) After 4 here. Next order of business, a medicinal shot and then off to the creek for the dog hike.