Old "Sweet 16" and not Chuck Berry either

[Francis Morin]

I have ordered some RST paper 2.5" shells for the 1908 mfg. PH 16- as it is on the size O frame, I had also thought about the barrel sets from Galazan for 0 framed Parkers, so I could use newer 2.75" light loads in it as well.

This PH has 26" Twist barrels- I read somewhere that one way to remove the light rust tracing (on the iron part of the skelp) is to coat the barrels with gun oil, and rub chalk on the affected areas. Has anyone done this, and if so, what were the results. Do you need stick white chalk (old school board stuff) or will powder chalk (like carpenter's and masons use in chalk line boxes) work- as all chalk is a mild abrasive I believe.

I have not gone further on the Galazan barrels, as yesterday I picked up an older M21 16 ga. Skeet- sn 20033 mfg. about 1950 era- no engraving, but marked SKEET on the receiver floor ahead of the trigger guard bow- 26" WS-1 and WS-2, almost all the original blue and wood finish- older red solid pad with the two plugs--

Like every M21 I have shot, the older pre- 1960 field models with the side arrow "bolsters" seem to show blueing fade on the receiver floor plate- Did Winchester have a different blueing process for the frame as comnpared to the receivers on the old M21's--

Nice gun, but way heavier than the PH with the same length barrels--:PS- I tried the Dr. Drew House stick chalk after a light coat of Hoppe's oil- No soap, the few rust specs in the iron swirls are still there--

[Bill Murphy]

The floorplate tarnish on a Model 21 is a sign of original finish. Any reblue that I am aware of will not tarnish like the original and will be an obviously refinished gun. I do not reblue the floorplates of my 21s for that reason. Prewar Model 12 receivers exhibit the same tarnish as Model 21 floorplates. You will have to read Schwing to get the technical information on the type of finish used on these guns.

[Francis Morin]

They are heavy for their gauge, at least the more common 12-16-20 series, but as Michael McIntosh once said I believe: "Hell for stout"--

There are three disciplines that fascinate me to no end, even somedays make me wish I had attended college: metallurgy, classical music and architecture--My SWAG as a retired welder re: M21 blue wear, ditto M12 in receiver areas might be a slight variance in the AISI 4000 range of steels- aka- nickel, chromium and molybdenum-- the M21 barrels, as also the post 1930's M12 were made from WPS- which I believe to be AISI 4140 Chrome/Moly with a 40carbon point range- but I suspect the receivers were forged from 4340 Nickel/Chrome/Moly with again 40 point carbon content--

The additional nickel content in the 4340 steels MAY account for that blueing wear, especially if the barrels were rust blued and the receivers, which had no lug brazing or soldered ribs as do the barrel assemblies, were dip blued or blued with the Du-Lite process developed by "Uncle Dupey" down in Wilmington DE back in that era.

I have always felt that Mr. Olin (no disrespect intended here) may have 'stacked the deck' in the famous Blue Pill proof test that the M21 "aced" and to compare a 12 M21 with a Churchill XXV proofed to light loads in a 2.5" shell would be like pitting Arnold Stang against "Mr. T" ina toughman contest.:duck::duck::duck:

[Dave Suponski]

I have two friends that shoot Model 21's at sporting.One of them is a 16 gauge skeet gun that I would love to own. My point here is that the bluing on both these guns is absolutely breathtaking.It looks as if you could actually look into it.Fantastic! And to top it off both guns are the the early sculpted frame models. For me most model 21's handle like a fence post but that skeet gun could change my mind....:rolleyes:

[Francis Morin]

I have always thought the early pre- 1960 M21's with the arrow shaped bolsters- unengraved but deep blued, fine walnut well checkered-were the Vade mecum of American boxlocks developed after 1930--The late Cactus Jack O'Connor was a big fan of the M21- I believe he said something like: "I'd rather have good blueing on unengraved metal and great walnut well finished and checkered than all the engraving extant". He also felt, as do I, that the pre-WW11 Model 70's, 12's and 21's were better fitted and finished than the post-war ones-

This 16 was built in the early 1950's- has the "kidney" or field style skeet beavertail- a friend has a 20 gauge M21 skeet his granddad bought new for quail in 1938-- straight grip, two triggers, ejectors, small forearm- also marked skeet ahead of the trigger guard, also 26" std. rib barrels choked WS-1 and WS-2, also solid red WRA pad with the June 1922 patent date and the two plugs to cover the screw access holes--It is a real sweet bird gun, but heavier than a Parker 20 on the O frame with same barrel length.

The M21 is about 15 ounces heavier than the PH 16 on the O frame I have-The M21 is a Baldwin Acrosonic, but the Parker PH is a Steinway Concert Grand--wonder if the same PH with 26" Parker Steel barrels would weigh about the same, or slightly more- the stamp is 3 and then 8- which I take to mean 3 lbs. 8 oz. and has the K stamp on the lug and flat as well-

I'll use the 16 M21 with No. 8 1 ounce loads when I hunt preserve birds over pointing dogs- but when over flushing dogs, either the 12 GHE or a 12 Smith 3E-- my "go to guns"-- I always wanted a 21, for years around here you could usually pick up a 16 for less than a 12 or a 20- that's changed a bit--

The man who owned it was an avid grouse/woodcock and sometimes pheasant hunter- and none of that Dick Baldwin/Gene Hill/Bill Tappley close quarter combat jungle canopy stuff either- as the stock and the barrels are unscarred at all- just the usual carrying wear on the receiver floorplate- It does have the non-automatic safety, but that can be converted to an automatic style via installation of the proper pushrod mechanism I believe-:cool::duck: