Older 12 gauge DHE

[Grantham Forester]

The same man that I bought the Trojan 12 gauge from- also has a nice 12 DHE- 30" Titanic Steel barrels, DT- solid red Silvers pad with plugs-restored by the Del Grego Gun Shop about 22 years ago not shot since-- the serial number chart on this Forum shows it to be a 1906 year of manufacture- it does have the angled tool steel wear plate pinned into the barrel lug- I am just curious- given the same condition- what would this gun be different in mechanical features from the same DHE 12 made in (1) 1916-- (2) 1926 and finally, 1936? I have read about changes in the number of action parts from 18 to 4 over a period of time- also, were the ejectors always of the same design, or did that feature have changes over a 20 to 25 year production run? Thanks:bigbye:

[Dean Romig]

Just curious Mr Forester - would the answers to those questions have any bearing on whether you buy the gun?... presuming it might have been offered to you.

[Grantham Forester]

That's the rumor about curiosity, so I have heard. Yes- I have 90 days to keep the 12 gauge Trojan, or I can return it for the purchase price of $500 as credit against the $3000 price of the Del-Grego-ed DHE 12-- I have thought about your patented forearm removal tool for the Trojan, and with a tool & die background, I am impressed, and your price is more than fair, Mr. Romig. The only reason why I have held up this purchase is that I may decide to move up to the DHE--

I agree with Mr. Murphy, a unaltered Trojan in any gauge is best left unaltered- The main sticking point with me is not the money so much, but the Trojan was made in 1926 and without the early small dolly's-head rib feature-- but with coil springs- And from reading the Peter Johnson book, I get the feeling that the 1906 dated DHE may have the older flat springs, and could be prone to failure.

I buy shotguns to keep and to shoot, and shoot a great deal- I hope you can appreciate that, and I will welcome your further advice on this. Thank you!!:bowdown::bowdown:

[Rick Losey]

but the Trojan was made in 1926 and without the early small dolly's-head rib feature-- but with coil springs- And from reading the Peter Johnson book, I get the feeling that the 1906 dated DHE may have the older flat springs, and could be prone to failure.


I certainly hope not- my newest is a 1904 and they get shot, hunting and clays. As do, I would guess, most of the older guns here.

[Dean Romig]

I'm of the same mind as Rick. I'm not aware of any flat springs having broken and a lot of the folks here shoot their older Parkers a lot.

But a Trojan in nice condition for $500 is a steal and I would keep it and try to buy the DHE too! That's how collections begin.

[Grantham Forester]

I will keep the Trojan:-it sure has great balance. Where is the best place to buy the spreader shotshell loads? I called the RST folks recently and they advised that they were out of stock. Also will both the Trojan and the DHE 12 gauge shotguns have 2 & 3/4" chambers, or do I need to use the RST 2 & 1/2" long shorter loads in them? Thanks!!:bigbye:

[Rick Losey]

I like the RST's

but I have used the Polywads to good effect- both the spread-r and vintager
http://www.polywad.com/spredr-shells.html

the DHE will also likely have short chambers - but any thing is possible

[Chuck Bishop]

Mr. Forester,

I'll try and answer your question about mechanical changes from 1903 to 1936. There aren't any major mechanical changes, just minor ones. You mentioned the addition of a wear plate, they changed the top lever linkage to the bolt making the top lever shorter and changed from a flat spring to a coil spring for the top lever. The safety button was changed to a different style and they changed the sculpting of the frame to cut down on labor. They never implemented the major redesign to reduce the number of parts. I don't think the ejector system was redesigned once it was put into production but I could be wrong. Others can chime in if I missed something. The Parker Story goes into great detail on the changes.

You should be able to use any off the shelf load assuming that the guns are mechanically sound.

[Dave Noreen]

Hardly a universal fair test, but the patterns I shot with using a full and full 1901-vintage VH-Grade with the 1 1/8 ounce #7 1/2 Spredr shells were extremely patchy.

[Dave Suponski]

Dave and All, I have done alot of testing with different loads using spreader inserts from Poly-Wad in both 12 and 16 gauge. The speed of the load is criticial to good patterns. I have shot thousands of my 16 gauge loads and they pattern great and against most beliefs they will reach out there. Just ask Dean and Larry....:)

[Dean Romig]

Right Dave, they reach out there and bust clays pretty nicely past 40 yds.

(Do I get my twenty bucks when I see you at Ernie's or will you be mailing it to me?)

[Dave Suponski]

Don't hold your breath Mr. Romig

[Dean Romig]

doh!

[Russ Jackson]

I have used the Polywad Spreaders for Grouse and Woodcock in a VERY TIGHTLY CHOKED TROJAN and had Great Success with clean kills and after not being able to hit anything with regular over the counter ammo in this gun ! Never used this ammo in any other gauge and these days I generally use RST's for my shotgun ammo used in my Parker Guns ! Hope this helps your decision in your purchase of shells ! Best ; Russ

[Brian Dudley]

Regarding the original question of this thread, there was no mechanical changes in Parker guns after 1917 or so. The 1910 change was the reduction of parts in the top lever mechanism and also the patented stepped wear plate. And then around 1917 the top lever spring went from a flat type to a coil spring/plunger type.

The "18-4" thing you mentioned was a prototype gun that James Hayes was working on and those design changes were never implemented ito production. For more information on this, I would suggest you read my article in the Summer 2013 issue of DGJ.

The only other change around 1917 was the style of the safety button, and the shortening of the top lever. The style of the safety button spring and safety jacket also changed some at this time. But I would not consider these to be actual "mechanical" changes.

[Grantham Forester]

In my copy of the Peter Johnson book, I thought he mentioned that Mr. Hayes reduced the number of action parts from 18 to 4, but I am not 100% sure. What is the DGJ and where can I find a 2013 copy to read your article. From your replies I take it that you are a gunsmith that knows Parkers and other fine double shotguns as well. Many thanks for the straightforward answer sans the comments about other more personal matters of a more fiscal nature. I am planning to buy the DHE at his set price, and keep the Trojan. So, those two Parkers, plus the VHE 12 made in aprox 1929 my father-in-law gave me, have me started on a "Possible Parker Path To Perdition" I am getting the collecting "bug", and the insight and advice to a novice here is priceless.:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

[Brian Dudley]

There is a lot in Johnson's book that is not accurate. The 18 to 4 parts reduction was taken from a letter that Hayes Wrote to Parker Management concerning a prototype he made for a revised cocking mechanism in the Parker gun. However, the change was never implemented into production. That is where Johnson got it wrong.

Johnson's book was the first about Parkers and is a good read, however it cannot be counted on as fact in a long of areas.

If you would like to read my article on James Hayes and his prototype guns, you can contact. DGJ directly for a copy. I also need to write up a condensed version of the same article for our own Parker Pages, but I have not found the time.

[William Davis]

Two very similar guns is a good idea. Time and money spent on events or hunting trips best to have a back up gun. Lets you use the 2nd as a loaner or bad weather gun too. Came back from the Southern with a GH that's almost identical to my VH. Fox Sterlingworth Pin gun that had been my back up will rotate out of the line up. After the stocks were bent all 3 guns are so close after a few shots you forget which one you are shooting.

On tight chokes and spreaders. Average clays course is going to have long and short targets. I keep about 1/3 spreader loads 2/3 regular loads in a divided pouch. Coming up to a station if the target looks shorter than a skeet target pull out a spreader. If longer use the regular 7/8 oz shell.

Loading spreaders is real simple, Use a different color shell so you don't mix them up. Red AA's for regular shells Green STS for the spreaders. 7/8 oz shot 7/8 oz cup in the AA's. 1 oz cup 7/8 oz shot and poly wad insert for the STS shells. Everything else is the same.

Trojan and DH about perfect.

Bill

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Dave and All, I have done alot of testing with different loads using spreader inserts from Poly-Wad in both 12 and 16 gauge. The speed of the load is criticial to good patterns. I have shot thousands of my 16 gauge loads and they pattern great and against most beliefs they will reach out there. Just ask Dean and Larry....:)

Dave, what is your 16 ga. load?