Parker 16 ga questions ?

[Vince Positano]

Hi all. I'm hoping you guys can help me in determining some specifics about a gun that I am considering purchasing. I have an above average knowledge of double shotguns, but admittedly my knowledge of Parkers is not as good as LC Smiths for example. So, I'm evaluating a gun right now for possible purchase. The gun is a 16 ga, VH grade, #1 frame, 3 weight barrels, made in 1930. All numbers match and its condition I would say is pretty good-good bores, barrels ring, a little thinning spots of bluing on the barrels, good wood, some case coloring. As to condition I'd say its in good enough condition that you probably wouldn't want to restore it. I usually buy all original guns that need a lot of TLC lets say. Negatives of the gun are the butt plate is cracked/missing a piece and there is a rather well installed fastener through the head of the stock to take care of a head split.

Anyway, my questions are really about the rarity of the gun in the configuration it is in (#1 frame, 3 weight barrels). If someone would like to take a stab at an approxiamte value, I know without pictures.....I'd appreciate it.

Thanks

Vince

[Rich Anderson]

A #1 frame 16 isn't a rare configuration in the Parker world. You didn't mention barrels length or stock configuration but my guess is it's a capped pistol grip splinter forearm double triggers. Straight grip guns in the lower grade are a little more unusual. I wouldn't hazard a guess as to value without good pictures but nothing beats having the gun in hand.

[Bill Murphy]

Your "3 weight" barrels are not a weight category. This stamping is the actual weight in pounds of the unstruck barrels. A smaller number stamped next to the pound weight would indicate ounces if the weight is not in even pounds.

[charlie cleveland]

i would venture this gun in the 12 to 1500 range it being a 16 if it were a 12 ga it would be less...charlie

[Vince Positano]

Thank you all for the responses so far. I think my main question has been answered and that this is a fairly typical 16 ga Parker. I haven't measured the barrels yet but id guess they are 28 inches. The stock is not a straight grip either. I will try and post some pics later today.

Im still curious about the reinforcing pin/bolt through the head of the stock. I was looking through old posts and I think it was Brian Dudley who referenced a "patented reinforcing" pin or something like that? Did Parker sometimes fit a reinforcing pin to strengthen the heads of their stocks? The one on this gun looks old and very well done; almost "factory" if there's such a thing. Again I will try and post some pics later.

Thanks again

Vince

[Robin Lewis]

Vince, the patented reinforcing rod was inserted in the butt of the stock and runs up through the wrist to reinforce the wrist area without being visible to the eye. If it was used on a gun with a skeleton butt plate then a circular impression might be visible in the wood center of the butt.

[Rich Anderson]

If the wooden dowel is through the head of the stock and the cheeks are checkered it's most likely a repair to the head of the stock and the checkering hides that.

[Dean Romig]

Parker Bros. was known to have reinforced some stock heads against splitting upon request and the same as a repair for stock heads that had split.

[Vince Positano]

Does anyone have a pic of a gun that was repaired by Parker or reinforced as Dean mentioned?

[Dean Romig]

I hope the gentleman who posted a picture of it about two years ago still has it and will post it again. There was reference to the preventative measure in the order book as I remember and it was done as a new gun - 10 gauge, again, as I remember it.

[Vince Positano]

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q594/vince4174/DSC_4606.jpg

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q594/vince4174/DSC_4608.jpg

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q594/vince4174/DSC_4610.jpg

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q594/vince4174/DSC_4612.jpg

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q594/vince4174/DSC_4609.jpg

[Vince Positano]

I added pics of the gun and specifically the reinforcing rod through/across the head. Is there any chance this was done by the factory ?

I finally got around to taking some measurements of the gun. It has 26" barrels, choked IM, F. Bore diameter of .660 and a MWT of .040. No real damage except for the butt plate and the rod through the head.

I like the gun except for that bolt/screw/rod through the head. The owner hasn't given me a price yet; I think he's waiting for me to make an offer.

I'd like to hear any opinions about the reinforcing device and how it affects the value. I'm guessing that if it wasn't done at the factory it puts the gun more in the shooter class, which doesn't bother me. Honestly, I'd be more at ease if the gun wasn't in such good shape. Like I said I like restoration projects.....

[Dean Romig]

That repair doesn't really look like a factory job... but one never knows. A letter might not even make reference to it if Parker Bros did it and certainly not if Remington had done it.
Also that repair doesn't keep the gun from being a very good shooter and, again only as a shooter, shouldn't affect value by more that 20% or so.

[Rick Losey]

if the repair is solid - here is someones approach to the cosmetics of it


http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11416&highlight=cheek

[charlie cleveland]

i have a coupla guns with this type repair and have shot heavy loads thru them with no problem...charlie

[Vince Positano]

Thanks for the replies about Mark Larson. I actually emailed him earlier before I knew he did this type of repair.

The repair is very solid, but I just don't like the rod going through there. I'm guessing the stock head split and this is a repair; there is a little seperation between the trigger plate and the stock on the left side.

I really like the gun. Maybe the owner will agree to a very good price (for me at least) because of the repair needed to the head. We'll see......

[Dave Suponski]

I have seen this exact stock pinning on a couple of guns that had no visible signs of crack's. Does your gun indeed have a repair at the head of the stock? Realizing of course that the fracture may be internal.

[Vince Positano]

Autumn Daze. There are no extrernal signs that the stock is cracked and I cant take it apart becuase I do not own it yet.

[Dave Suponski]

Vince, We have seen in the Parker order books the phrase "Pin stock". Unfortunatly we have not seen a gun that the letter had that notation in it to examine. But I suspect that it could closly resemble your gun.

[Dean Romig]

Dave, I made reference earlier in this thread to one we saw about two years ago where there was such a notation in the order book.... if memory serves.

[Dave Suponski]

Yes that was one of the guns I was thinking about. This gun and the one we examined the repair was identicle. I didn't realize there was a note in the order book. So we have seen a documented gun!

[Dean Romig]

I'm pretty sure that's what was determined then.

[Vince Positano]

Dean or Autumn Daze. Can this gun's serial number be checked in the book(s) only to see if that phrase is listed for this serial number ? or do I have to order a letter to find that out ??

[Dean Romig]

You need to order a letter... but be fore-warned - A research letter for a non-member is $100, but it costs only $40 to join the PGCA and then the letter is only $40 so you save $20 by joining and the other benefits alone make the $40 membership fee well worth it.
You get four quarterly issues of Parker Pages, our "newsletter' which is actually a nice 48-page color glossy magazine loaded with great technical articles and shooting/hunting stories. Then there is the "Members Only" section of this website where you can buy & sell guns of all kinds, etc., etc.

[Vince Positano]

Hey Dean and Autumn Days. I went ahead and joined and also ordered a letter for this gun. I had a question about your earlier comments reference the gun you saw sometime in the past with the identical rod going through the head. Did you say that gun also had been lettered and it showed a comment of "pin stock" in the book? Or were you guys drawing a conclusion about a documented gun after seeing pics of my gun?

[Dave Suponski]

Vince,The gun was documented in the Parker Bros. records.

[Vince Positano]

So the gun you saw which had the same rod through the head AND which is documented as a "pin stock" looked identical to my gun ? Sorry, just want to clarify

[Dean Romig]

Vince, going strictly by memory (the second thing to deteriorate with age) I believe so... but can't swear to it. I do remember the discussion here on the forum with pictures and the fact that there was something in the order book referencing the pinned stock head.

[Chuck Bishop]

Guys, the said gun is a 1930 gun. Only the Order Book will give info on a stock repair if it was returned to PB. When did the Order Books end?????? That's right, 1919. The only chance would be if it's in the last Repair Order Book but I wouldn't hold my breath. Sorry!

[Dean Romig]

Thanks Chuck. I'm sure the one that Dave and I are recalling was certainly done prior to 1919.

[John Davis]

This is from a letter written by Parker Bros. to a customer in Connecticut explaining his options for repairing a split in the head of his stock :

Letter to R. L. Keeney, Somersville, Connecticut, February 4, 1911:
“We are in receipt of yours of the 1st, also gun, which we have examined and find what you describe as a swelling of the stock is in reality due to the fact that the stock is split in the head. This was caused by some strain or blow at some time. We could repair this temporarily by putting a screw or bolt through the head of the stock, bring it up to its original location, and this would cost about $2.00. To clean and repair action would cost about $2.50, rebrown barrels $5.00 and to reblue all the iron parts $2.50. This would put your gun in practically as good condition as new. We would be very glad to do any part or all of this work which you might order. The most satisfactory way to repair the stock would be to put on an entirely new one, which would cost $13.00 net. We have set your gun to one side and will await your further instructions before doing anything with it.”

[Rich Anderson]

$13 to restock a gun...those were the days:) I wonder what $13 dollars in 1911 would represent today?

[John Davis]

$13 to restock a gun in 1911. Couple of thousand now? I bought a calculator the other day for a dollar. Same basic calculator would have cost me $150 in the early 70's. My first car was a Toyota in 1975. It cost $2500 new. Try buying a car for that now. You can buy lap top computers all day long for less than $500. A few years ago those same computers (actually not as good) would have cost a couple of thousand. Go figure.

[Vince Positano]

$13 to restock a gun...those were the days:) I wonder what $13 dollars in 1911 would represent today?

I checked a couple inflation calculators and$13 in 1911 is equal to about $320 today

[Rich Anderson]

I have had a couple of guns restocked and the cost is between $2000-3000. I bought a Chevy 4X4 new with all the options in 1976 for $5500 out the door. A friend bought a new Ford diesel $63K:eek: