Philadelphia Arms Fox A

[Brian Hornacek]

I was at a gun show this weekend and looked at Philadelphia Arms #528 32" barrels w/extractors. Tubs were clean and untouched, stock had recoil pad but it was there. I know anything is a good buy for $450, got the guys card and I am thinking about buying it for something to keep me busy. Any opinions? Not much a picture but its the one on the bottom. Had "fox" on the receiver.

[Milton Starr]

pretty sure that is a parkers ?

[Dean Romig]

Pretty sure that is a "pin" Sterly.

[Frank Srebro]

This looks like a Philadelphia Arms Co gun as described in the first post. PAC was a predecessor to the A H Fox Gun Co. It's just my opinion but any Fox with 32-inch barrels, in good shape, is easily worth that kind of money.

http://www.foxcollectors.com/ah_fox/content/philadelphia_arms.html

[Daryl Corona]

Frank is correct. It is a PAC gun and, if in reasonable condition, is worth $450. I have a B grade PAC gun, s/n 1087, with 32" tubes, straight grip and was mentioned in Macintosh's book. A really nice gun. I'm sure Dave N. will chime in as he has been collecting s/n's on these guns for years.

[Erick Dorr]

Looks like my PAC Fox sn 1347.
Erick

[Mills Morrison]

Assuming no major issues, I would buy it at $450

[Dave Noreen]

Here is the link to the Philadelphia Arms Co. info on the A.H. Fox Collectors Association, Inc. site --

http://www.foxcollectors.com/ah_fox/content/philadelphia_arms.html

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Philadelphia%20Arms%20Co/AdforA-GradeAmericanFieldApril221905.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Philadelphia%20Arms%20Co/AdshowingC-Grade.jpg

My article on Philadelphia Arms Co. was in The Double Gun Journal, Volume Thirteen, Issue 4. And, another in the AHFCA Newsletter Volume Three, Issue 2, Fall 2010. Recently the notice of the Sheriff's sale of Philadelphia Arms Co. brought some strong bidding on ebay.

[Brian Dudley]

The Philly Arms marked guns are a Pre-Sterlingworth/AH Fox gun. The similarities to a Parker do not stop at the hinge pin. The forend iron and forend latch look like they came right out of Parker Parts bins. The rib matting is nearly identical to a Parker and the roll stamped makers mark even has the arrows at each end just like a Parker. Frame sculpting was similar and so was checkering.

$450 is a great price on that gun if it is not a complete wreck. If you dont buy it, pass on his info and I would. I have been looking for one for a little while. They are neat guns that do not pop up very often.

[alcaviglia]

$450 is a great price on that gun if it is not a complete wreck. If you dont buy it, pass on his info and I would. I have been looking for one for a little while. They are neat guns that do not pop up very often.

...I'll second that. They're good guns. I have a Grade A 12 ga. with 30" Krupp barrels, #628, that I picked up for exactly $450 in rougher shape than the one you are considering.

There has been a restored Grade A for sale on gunbroker for a little while (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=413220998).

[Dean Romig]

Yep, I misspoke when I called it a "Sterly".

Wasn't this gun's design and production the result of Ansley having recently left the employ of Parker Bros.?

[alcaviglia]

Yes, I believe so. Even the safety looks like a Parker.

[Bill Murphy]

Ansley employed by Parker Brothers? Where is Mr. Noreen when we need him?

[Brian Dudley]

I have heard that before as well, but I do not know if there is any truth behind it.

You would think there to be some connection given all the similarities between The Parker and Philly Arms guns.

[Dean Romig]

We know for fact that he owned at least one Parker gun and that he shot competitively with it and I had heard or read that he was employed by PB for a short period... Dave Noreen, can you verify this or disprove it?

[Dave Noreen]

Ansley H. Fox was never employed by Parker Bros. to my knowledge. He left his partners in the Fox Gun Co., Balto., MD., U.S.A. in January 1900, when they went on to become Baltimore Arms Co. Ansley went to work as a professional shooter for the big W representing their line of ammunition and shooting a Parker Bros. gun. He often shot under the name LEADER, Winchester's premium shell. He was using the Parker when he carried the highest average for the entire week's events at the Grand American Handicap in April 1900, but only got 24 out of 25 birds in the GAH itself. By August 1900, the big W had Ansley shucking one of their Model 1897s. At the GAH of 1901 he again carried the high average for the entire week's events, and this time ran 25 straight in the GAH too --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Ansley%20H%20Fox/Ansleyat1901GAH_zps980fed49.jpg

But, he missed the first bird in the shoot-off. I've often wondered if missing that bird with the Model 1897 wasn't what caused Ansley to go off and found two more companies to build double barrel shotguns.


I have a Grade A 12 ga. with 30" Krupp barrels, #628, that I picked up for exactly $450 in rougher shape than the one you are considering.


Any more info? Pictures? I'd like to add this gun to my list of observed PAC guns.

[Brian Dudley]

I see that restored one listed on GB is not far from me. I may have to take a trip and check that one out in person.

One of the major reasons I have wanted to own one was to be able to physically compare some of the very similar parts in the Philly guns to parts in Parker guns. I would be curious if the forend latches interchange.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks Dave. I guess that dispels the myth of Ansley having been employed by PB.

My apologies to everyone that I had been the perpetuator of the myth on this forum.

[alcaviglia]

Please do add it to your list.

PAC Fox Grade A
s/n: 628
30" 12 ga. Krupp barrels
Right Choke: .026"
Left Choke: .034"
DT, extractor
LOP (front trigger): 13-7/8"
Comb: 1-9/16"
Heel: 2-1/2"

Purchased from private seller (St. Cloud, FL) on 14 December, 2012; received on 10 January, 2013. He inherited the shotgun from his late step-father.

Below are a few of the pictures taken when I received it.


-Al

[Mills Morrison]

I sure hope we convinced you to buy this one. It sure is a nice one

[Dave Noreen]

Al,

Thanks for the information on 628.

Dave

[alcaviglia]

...my pleasure

[Brian Hornacek]

Thanks for your help. I am going to try and buy #528. Stay tuned.