Remington 1894 EEO 16 Ga on Cowan auction...

[Bill Anderson]

The Remington 1894 EEO 16 Ga listed in the recent Cowan auction has Remington steel barrels and are stamped accordingly, not ordnance. Also, the top rib is without matting.
I researched this exact gun two years ago with several pictures sent to me from the owner at that time. The barrels were in the white back then.
http://www.cowansauctions.com/auctions/item.aspx?id=138789

With that said, I hope the new owner doesn't really know what he bought, or knows, and wants to find ordnance grade barrels for it
There were other mistakes made with a couple of other Remington doubles on the same auction.

Bill

[Jim DiSpagno]

And he paid a premium at $17,250.00 plus 20%

[David Noble]

Bill, I'd be interested in hearing about the mistakes on the other Remingtons in the auction.

[Rich Anderson]

Somebody said there are no stupid questions so here goes. The description says it has ordnance grade barrels. What are these specifically? Why do you feel they aren't correct? These higher grade Remingtons are very nice guns and something I have overlooked so I'd like to learn more.

[Pete Lester]

Remington produced the model 1894 with two types of fluid steel barrels, Ordnance was one and barrels were stamped as such. E grade is one of the highest graded Remingtons, an EEO would be E grade, Ejectors, Ordnance Steel barrels. When Charles Semmer wrote his book there were only 17 known E grades. This 16ga gun is featured on page 190, it is listed as an EEO and is noteable for being the only one known with spearheads on the cheek panel. The barrels of this gun in pictures of it on the auction site show Remington fluid steel barrels, not Ordnance. Semmer's book does not show the barrel stampings. So the question is, is it an EE grade with Remington Steel barrels or was it an EEO grade that has been rebarreled. I suspect the former as many folks not familar with Remington doubles think fluid steel = Ordnance steel.

[Dave Noreen]

Generally speaking on Remington Hammerless Doubles with Ordnance Steel barrels, the word ORDNANCE is stamped on the top of each barrel on AO-/AEO- and BO-/BEO-Grades and is engraved on CO- and higher grades. Remington Steel barrels were generally not marked. To my eyes, every Remington Hammerless Double in that auction that I looked at had issues. That auction did have more Remington Hammerless Doubles then I've ever seen in one place.

As originally introduced the Remington Hammerless Doubles were only offered with various grades of Damascus barrels. The Ordnance Steel and Remington Steel barrels were added to the offerings in 1897.

[Bill Anderson]

Bill, I'd be interested in hearing about the mistakes on the other Remingtons in the auction.

Of the auctions that I reviewed, the two that caught my attention are lot # 1026, which is listed as a CE grade, when actually it is a D grade gun. And lot # 1027 listed as 1876, when actually it is a 1873, which is the only model with the sliding plate which brings the hammers to half cock when you push up on the top lever. There may be more mis-listed items, but haven't gone through them all yet.

Bil

[Rich Anderson]

So with the Remington guns the difference in barrel steel is similar to the differences in Parker barrels as far as nomenclature goes, Vulcan vs Titanic for example?

[Bill Anderson]

So with the Remington guns the difference in barrel steel is similar to the differences in Parker barrels as far as nomenclature goes, Vulcan vs Titanic for example?

Yes, that is correct. Ordnance steel was introduced by Remington in 1897, at an extra cost of $10.00, and was recommended for use with heavy charges of nitro powder.

Bill

[Dave Noreen]

Remington's ORDNANCE Steel was always higher priced. When Remington introduce their John M. Browning designed Remington Autoloading Gun and their John D. Pedersen designed Remington Repeating Shotgun, they came with a Remington Steel barrel. For $6.75 extra, one could get your Autoloading Gun or Repeating Gun with an ORDNANCE Steel barrel --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Remington/RemingtonRepeatingShotgun1909catalogue02-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Remington/7641602.jpg

On the Remington Hammerless Doubles the ORDNANCE Steel barrels were the same price as the Damascus barrels on the C-quality and above guns, but were $15 extra on the lower grades. List prices from the 1903-04 Remington Arms Co. catalogue --

Grade A ..............$45
Grade AE.............$50
Grade AR.............$45
Grade AER...........$50
Grade AO.............$60
Grade AEO...........$65
Extra barrels for AEO....$40 Extra barrels for AO...$37.50
Grade B...............$60
Grade BE.............$65
Grade BO.............$75
Grade BEO...........$80
Extra barrels for BEO....$47.50 Extra barrels for BO....$45.00

For all other grades extra barrels were half the price of the gun.

The Remington Steel barrels were only offered on the A-quality guns and after 1900 on the K-grades.

According to Semmer, some very late guns were produced with Krupp Steel barrels, but I've never seen one.

[Bill Murphy]

Without going back and reading the catalog and the thread, I will ask, "Is there something wrong with the EEO grade gun other than the fact that the owner is not the Remington researcher that some of our posters are?" Was not at least one gun seriously underdescribed? It is up to the buyer to find out what he is buying. We learned decades ago not to trust the auction house, either from the shoes of the buyer or the seller.

[Milton Starr]

So lets say I found a nice I mean very nice 1894 BE grade 10 ga for 1100$ would that be a good deal ?

[Bill Murphy]

Yup, Milton, everyone is responsible for his own destiny at a gun auction. Congratulations.

[Milton Starr]

Havnt decided yet . They are selling it so cheap because someone blued the barrels then tried to polish it off they have a olive tint to them . If the barrels were redone it would loo practically new . Though it concerns me that it has no pitting in the bore . It might have been honed or just kept really cleaned which given its good condition would seem right .
Though I also think it would be good to send one of my doubles to Brad B and spend the money on getting one spruced up .

[Kenny Graft]

Brad did a grade 2 top lever hammer 12 for me....WOW is it nice! Its not one of my hunting go to guns but I love it anyway....(-: I have fired it one time since it came to stay with me. A large crow vermin lost its life that dreadful day....The bird got past me and was fleeting fast!, a quick change to the rear trigger and to my suprize the bird crumpled at over fifty yards with low brass 7.5#. It will take to the turkey woods one time or two in the future. Brads color case is 2nd to none...and will not break the bank. thanks all SXS ohio

[Marion Salsman]

I know this is an old thread but I just stumbled on it today and I registered with the site to add to the story concerning this EEO. I traded for the above 16 GA EEO around 35 years ago. When it arrived I was very disappointed to discover that the barrels had been refinished and looking down the outside of the barrels was akin to looking down a corduroy road. I suspect that is the reason for the non conforming barrel on it now. I sent the shotgun back and got the trade firearms returned to me. The next time I saw the shotgun was when I saw it in Charlie Semmers book. I talked to Charlie about it and he did not remember anything negative about the barrels. This same shotgun sold at the Butterfields auction in San Francisco for around $10,000 several years ago. I saw it also sold for about the same at another auction a couple of years later. I have often regretted not hanging onto it.

[Kevin McCormack]

An excellent series of posts, all of which exemplify the notion that, if you attend enough auctions/previews, and live long enough, you will invariably see these examples of guns coming out of the "nether galaxies" of dubious authenticity and/or lineage. With the current state of the art refinishing techniques available today, and the total lack of records or attribution concerning some of these guns, expert appraisal and validation is the cheapest money you will ever spend before taking the plunge on a high dollar gun at any auction.