Help with Crass

[joe penkala]

Greetings. I would like to solicit help with an Ithaca Crass I recently picked up at a gun show. Several parts are missing. I was aware of this but the price more than reflected the lack of completeness. My usual used parts sources came up dry and my web search for photos and drawings produced little. I can make the parts if I know what they look like. Missing are the cocking hook, what appears to be an insert in the bite for the locking lug, a guide for the extractor and the extractor. I am also missing both firing pins. I can pour wax molds to get an idea of what the firing pins look like but a photo would be nice. All other parts are there in duplicate or at least one of so I can make a copy. I have searched the web and obtained some not great pictures of some of the parts. I have obtained the relevant patent drawings but still only have a very rough idea of what some of the parts look like. I found one thread on this forum that refers to an album containing photos of all the Crass parts prepared by one of the members but I can’t seem to find it. I am probably just looking in the wrong place. Any pictures or measurements of the parts would be greatly appreciated. I have included several photos of the barrels where most of the missing parts would reside. Thanks in advance for your interest.

[joe penkala]

Hope the photos are here.

[Allen Peterson]

You might try Les Hovencamp in Ithaca NY . Les had some parts for a early
Ithaca Flues 10 ga. His shop is Diamond gunsmithing on Dey st. Ithaca.

[joe penkala]

Tanks for the lead. I'll give him a try

[alcaviglia]

Joe,

If you click on my profile you will find the album on the right side of the page. The photos are from an Ithaca Lewis model. There exist a few differences between Crass and Lewis, but most Lewis parts will work on a Crass model.

You can check Numrich for parts under "Crass Hammerless" (http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/IthacaSKB-33316/Shotguns-36647/CrassHammerless-40953.htm?results=All), or the Ithaca Lovers forum on shotgunworld.com may be of some help. Numrich doesn't have an extractor, but they do have firing pins and fp retaining screws.

Both other parts you are missing include springs. I'm sorry to say that I did not dimension the barrel lump pieces, so can't help you there.

[joe penkala]

I was able to find the album. Will follow up on the other info. Two springs? Would not have expected that. What keeps the extractor in position/from rotating since my barrel has no hole for an extractor guide rod? Thanks for all the help.

[alcaviglia]

That's a good question, Joe. On the Lewis model there is a guide rod in the center of the extractor that is about an inch long.

Something to note: Numrich may have a Lewis extractor listed under the Crass model parts. Mis-cataloguing happens, occasionally. They have a great, no-questions-asked return policy, so it can't really hurt to try...should they get one in.

[joe penkala]

Thanks for the info. I'll check Numrich.

[alcaviglia]

You may want to check this photo album:

http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=1037632&image=693118614&images=693117257,693117328,693117411,693117505,693 117594,693117677,693117741,693117795,693117879,693 117952,693118236,693118319,693118452,693118532,693 118614&formats=0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0&format=0

...hopefully you can load and view it. It shows the coil spring and an extractor guide is definitely absent. Perhaps the extractor retaining screw does the job (against a flat surface of the extractor shaft, or maybe in a bit of a groove).

[alcaviglia]

...and a correction on a previous post - just the one spring (which is visable in the album linked above).

[KCordell]

Hi, I hope these pics can help you. It looks a bit different though, are you sure yours is a crass?

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn128/code337/20140504_175046_zpsluuzn6zd.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn128/code337/20140504_175039_zpsrajvwlv0.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn128/code337/20140504_175006_zpsoaouqo50.jpg

[charlie cleveland]

very nice..my first time to see this style of barrels at the breach end..charlie

[joe penkala]

Thanks so much. The photos of the barrels are just what I needed. Good detail on the cocking hook. I now see how it operates. I have successfully fabricated new firing pins based on your original album photos. I am in the process of making a main spring and sear spring for one side then on to the barrel parts. Thanks again.

[joe penkala]

My action has six screws(one blind screw in the front which appears not to do anything), a dolls head extension, and flat main springs, and a serial number of 41371 led me to believe it to be a crass. The barrel lump mechanics did not match anything I could find for any of the the Ithaca's. I have a Flues and the cocking mechanism on this one is very different. Did not look like photos of a Lewis or Manier mechanisms to me either. The number of holes in the lumps is puzzling. None of the photos I have seen have that many holes in the lumps for screws and pins. Two pins are in place and there are holes for three screws. I am far from an expert on Ithaca's so my analysis and conclusions may be incorrect. For $75 this gun has provided a great amount of enjoyment and provided me with an opportunity to learn a great deal about Ithaca doubles. Tha

[alcaviglia]

I think the "blind screw" would be the mainspring strain pin in my parts album for the Lewis model.

I believe that I have dimensions on them if you need it.

[alcaviglia]

...and yes, an Ithaca hammerless with six screws/pins in each side of the receiver of that serial range should be a Crass model. Lewis models have only five (the sear pins being hidden by the stock head).

[joe penkala]

I was wondering if you had any idea what the second notch in the lumps is for? The locking bolt engages the notch nearest the barrels I don't know what goes in the second notch. It can be seen in the third photo. Thanks for the offer to measure the screws but all of the screws are present.

[alcaviglia]

It's hard to see in the first photo that you posted, but that square channel between the lump and the barrels is for ejectors, I believe. I think you may be looking to replace ejectors as opposed to an extractor. What does your forend iron look like?

[joe penkala]

The forend is not set up for ejectors, neither is the action and the action, forend iron and barrels all have the same serial number.

[joe penkala]

I was asking about the notch in photo 3. I have included a photo indicating the second notch that I can't figure the function of.

[Dave Noreen]

The Crass ejector guns had the mechanism in the lug and the frame, not in the forearm. Only offered for the last couple of years of the Crass Model 1900 and early 1901. Those are the barrels of a Crass Model ejector gun.

[joe penkala]

Interesting. How were the ejectors tripped for the fired barrel.

[joe penkala]

Just realized I had patent 593616 for Smith's ejectors in my research but had not paid much attention to it since I only look for ejectors in high end guns (which mine does not appear to be) and since I was only familiar with ejectors housed in the forend. Thanks for the info. I'll look the patent over and see where I can get. I''m liking this gun more and more.

[Bach Melick]

Joe, the photos you posted do not resemble anything at all on my own Ithaca Crass (1897 manufacture, based on the s/n list)...

mine looks just like what KCordell posted...

[joe penkala]

I believe that mine is an extractor model with most of the extractor parts missing.

[joe penkala]

Sorry I meant ejector not extractor. Senior moment.