Parker Lifter 1351

[Dean Freeman]

I know half of you are down in Raleigh right now. God I wish I was retired. The rest of us sinners have to stay back and ensure your social security accounts don't go dry. As such I figured I'd post some broken gun porn for those of you who appreciate the damaged things. Be forewarned, this one hurts a bit to look at.

Just purchased this poor old parker from PGCA Member Scott Boal. Scott's personal page has photos of the gun before it was shipped to me. I've since broken the gun down into its parts to clean and take stock of which parts I've got to purchase for repairs. The pictures of the gun and all its particulars is in this album on my personal page...http://parkerguns.org/forums/album.php?albumid=547

Give it a look, there are certainly some interesting historical data points related to this early hammer gun. It may interest some of the more educated of you out there. I'd love to hear any feedback you guys have.

My plan right now is to get the gun mechanically sound with as close to correct parts as I can. Then I will attempt a new stock with checkering to be done by a pro (Hello Brian Dudley). Then, once I give up on the stock, i'll probably have a pro do that too. Then the big decision, whether or not to have the metal case hardened. All in good time I suppose; no need getting the shell in front of the bore.

Thoughts?

[charlie cleveland]

sounds like a good project you have going there good luck with it...charlie

[Brian Dudley]

That upper tang extention will be easily removable. you can clearly see the outline of the original tang. Heck, the engraving is still all there. You just need to take off the piece and the end and clean up the edge with some file work.

I would not do any case color work on this gun. It shoud be the last thing to be considered. It has nice patina and would present nicely cleaned up.

[Dean Freeman]

Thanks Brian,
The upper tang was drilled and the material from the extension filled into the tang, then polished in two spots (you can seen them if you look closely in one of the pics). It's amazing to see the work that was done on the "repairs" to this gun. How they did the work on the tang extension without removing the engraving is hard to figure. The trigger-plate work is similar but less baffling. Still the work is very precise. The repairs, while not perfect, are not the run of the mill home repair; especially considering the damage that had been done. Whomever did this repair work knew their way around a metal shop. Funny how it used to be requisite knowledge to understand and know how to fix things.

[Mills Morrison]

I like the engraving on this Parker and agree, the metal has a nice patina as is. It obviously needs work and some new parts, but should look great once the project is complete. Keep us posted.

[Dean Freeman]

Mills, Wait till you see the pics i'm posting of the stock. I cleaned it up and was amazed.

[Mills Morrison]

Can't wait to see. If you can repair that one, maybe my E grade lifter has hope.

[Dean Freeman]

Here are the pics of this profoundly unfortunate Buttstock. It is heartbreaking to see what this beauty once was. To replace this with a similar blank would certainly cost a small fortune. Perhaps I could make a nice lamp base or cheese server with this one. :crying:
I took some steel wool and oil-soap to this and just gave it a quick clean. Years of filth came off. I then just added some Tung oil to get some idea of what she used to look like. What a shame!

Before

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6148
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6147

After

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6182
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6181
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6180
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6179

Some other views

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6187
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6185
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6184

[Chuck Bishop]

I wouldn't be too quick on having a new stock made. I'd ship the broken stock to a highly qualified stock repairman and get their opinion.

[Brian Dudley]

That would make a nice back half for a butt transplant. Don't throw it away.

Or,
Depending on if the head it all there, it could be repaired. Best thing you have going for it is that the damage is in the checkering pattern. That helps a LOT.

[Mills Morrison]

That wood is beautiful.

[Brian Dudley]

Actually, a repair would be out of the question, I forgot about the tang extension. At least ok of the question if you planned on correctly putting the gun back together and removing the tang extension.

[Dean Freeman]

The tang extension, while done well, is not nice enough to be a keeper. A integral part of the guns history perhaps, but not really something that I see when I imagine this gun finished. I'm interested to know if there is any way to keep the stock in one way or another. Up until now it was my belief that this stock was good only as a template for a restock.

[Chuck Bishop]

I'm wondering if some expert stock repair person wouldn't be able fix that break and make it whole again, even splicing in a piece of wood where the extended tang was inletted. Mark Larson comes to mind as being able to make different pieces of wood look like one piece. I have no idea if all this repair work is possible or what the cost to fix would be compared to a new butt stock but if the cost is similar, at least you would have the original wood on the gun.

[Dean Freeman]

Chuck,
That's a good point. I've seen some of his work on here and he is a magician. I am talking to someone regarding the stock and will make a decision soon. My ideal build will not cost a fortune and I am planning on attempting a stock myself. I've already done a little work and want to give this a go if the original is not to be salvaged. I'll leave checkering and possibly inletting to the pros however.

[Dean Freeman]

There are few mating surfaces left to attach the butt of the stock to the inletted portion. It would be a real effort to get this stock back together. By the worn surfaces on the broken pieces, you can see that the damage was done long ago.

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6151

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6149

Upper tang extension repair. Whomever did this knew a little, note that the engraving is intact

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6092

Upper tang extension

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6095

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6118

Broken screw on trigger-guard

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6106

Broken sear

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6121

Side by side comparrison

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6087

Broken triggerplate, broken triggers

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6077

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6080

[Dean Freeman]

It hurts to imagine what on earth happened to this poor gun

[charlie cleveland]

if they could only talk what they have been through..i have a old parker 8 ga that has been treated the worst of any gun i ve ever saw...charlie

[chris dawe]

I would try and fix it first and foremost ...just my 2 cents ,if it couldn't be done then maybe a transplant ...but it seems to be all there ,a little splice here and there to fill out the missing pieces that may or may not be seen in the end,but in my opinion part of the gun's story

Good luck with it !!!

[Dean Freeman]

So here is my latest update...
Brian Dudley was kind enough to stop by on his way to the Southern SXS. It was a real pleasure meeting him, his wife, and his guns! Brian helped me out with some parts I needed to get going. First of all I want to thank Brian for his help and advice. I'm a relative newbie to Parkers and given the age of this one, it was nice to get some pointers on how to move forward. The level of commitment and fellowship that our members have is amazing and Brian is a testament to that. Thanks also to Jim DiSpagno for his call the other day. What a guy (just don't plan on doing anything for a couple of hours if he get's you on the phone)! Jim has helped out too with lots of support! What a generous group we have.

So here are photos of the tang extensioin inletting, the upper tang extension and the sear replacement on the left lock.

Tang inletting and tang extension

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6206
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6207
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6208

Tang extension removal

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6224
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6225
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6226
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6227
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6228
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6230
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6229

The extent of the stock damage

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6210
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6211

Sear repair

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6212
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6213

I also cleaned and polished the lock parts. Then I removed the upper tang extension, filing and polishing down to original metal.

Before and after...

Before
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6121
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6086
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6087

After
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6220

More photos of the left lock
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6221
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6222
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6219


There are many more photos available in the album I created for this project "Parker Lifter Project". Feel free to check them out if you like.

[Dean Freeman]

More pics of the repair. Here are some photos of the hammer screws and the hammer repair

Incorrect replacement screw on left hammer
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6232

Correct screw on right hammer
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6233

Hammer repair, after a light punch and a bit of work on fit, the hammer is no longer loose and operates perfectly
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6235
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6236

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6237

A look at the sidelock engraving
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6238

[Dean Freeman]

This is what happens when you get into a big hurry and aren't taking care to remove parts properly...

http://www.parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6234

I broke the sear spring on the right lock (which WAS in perfect condition). An expensive lesson to learn; take your time!
The cleaning and repair of the locks WAS complete. Now I have to find parts to fix this stupid mistake.


Waiting for a less incompetent restorer...

http://www.parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6256

[charlie cleveland]

bet brian has got one of them springs..he s come through for me a few times..charlie

[Dean Freeman]

So after this last post I was gifted a few parts from a very generous member of the forum. I can't thank him enough for the help. I have rebuilt the locks and everything is in perfect working order. Now for the stock work...

I have one question that all may have an opinion though. The parts I was gifted were from a slightly older gun with rebounding locks. I have the parts to change my locks to the rebounding type. I'm wondering if I should do so? I would keep the old "tumblers" (not sure if that is the correct name for the part I'm thinking of changing) so as not to part the originals from the gun in case a future owner wanted to return the gun to its original condition. The main reason I'm thinking of doing it is the safety factor. Do you guys have any thoughts or opinions regarding this potential move?

[Brian Dudley]

Rebounding locks require a completely different lock plate. Or alterning your current lock plate. I am not sure which other parts you are speaking of. As far as I know, the only difference in the other parts is the tumbler since non rebounding locks have a sifferent type of slot cut in them for a half cock safety.

[Dean Freeman]

I was thinking of replacing the tumbler on my lock with the tumbler from a 2xxx series lock. It looked like it would change out, but I didn't look very close. I wanted to pose the question here before I even tried. If the tumblers won't exchange, then I suppose it's a moot point. But since we are on the subject. If you could exchange the tumblers, would this be a good idea or not?

Thanks Brian, you're always a great source of information. It looked as though the locks are identical except for a round bottom on the tumbler which is in turn forced back when the sear comes in contact with it. I'll post some pics later.

On another note, the locks from the 2xxx series gun were embellished at bit more than mine. Interesting and beautiful swirls (I'll try to post pics later). The action seems to be from the same $grade as my gun though. I would have simply traded lock for lock since the others were prettier than mine anyway with more color remaining. Alas, they needed some work to fit properly and wouldn't you know it, I don't have an annealing oven.
Regardless, 1351 is beautiful in my eyes and will hopefully be a looker once again some day.

[Brian Dudley]

Changing just the tumblers will do nothing for you. You need to change the whole lock plate out in order to convert to rebounding hammers.

Rebounding hammer lock plates have a step in the bottom of the plate that sticks out and stops the mainspring from traveling down past the bottom of the plate. You will notice that your plate does not have this since your spring hangs off the bottom of the plate. That little stop point is the part of the rebounding lock design that makes it all work.

[Tom McCoy]

I knew I should not have looked at this thread, now I want a project.

Good stuff Dean!!

Tom

[Dean Freeman]

Changing just the tumblers will do nothing for you. You need to change the whole lock plate out in order to convert to rebounding hammers.

Rebounding hammer lock plates have a step in the bottom of the plate that sticks out and stops the mainspring from traveling down past the bottom of the plate. You will notice that your plate does not have this since your spring hangs off the bottom of the plate. That little stop point is the part of the rebounding lock design that makes it all work.

I was wondering what the purpose of that little stop was.
...So what's happening with that stop and the mainspring that makes the rebounding lock do its thing?

[Brian Dudley]

The step in the plate stops the spring from traveling beyond the bottom the the plate. When the trigger is pulled, the hammer springs forward and moves past that stop point freely due to forward momentum. The pressure from the sear spring and sear on the bottom of the tumbler is what makes the hammer return back to the rest position.

[Dean Freeman]

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6671

Here's the tumbler from the donor lock in front of the lock from 1351

[Dean Freeman]

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6670

Here's the donor lock showing the tumbler and the mainspring stop

[Dean Freeman]

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6673

Here's a pick of the donor rebounding lock. Notice the mainspring resting on the stop and the rounded bottom of the tumbler.

[Dean Freeman]

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=547&pictureid=6672

A pic of the finished locks for 1351. All done with the lock repair

[Dean Freeman]

Now for a question...
I am either going to have to find a replacement trigger guard for a straight grip, or I'll have to have the original welded back to the screw portion (See page two of this thread). Welding will require cleaning and polishing. This will remove patina from the trigger guard (Same goes for the trigger plate also on page 2). If I go this route, is there any way to accurately "antique" the metal? That trigger guard will look really weird all shiny and new against the rest of this metal.

Also, I need a replacement for the non original hammer screw (Top of page three of this thread). First of all, which one's the original, and secondly who wants to "donate" one (or two) to the cause? :whistle:


Thoughts?

[Dean Romig]

Tom Carter makes hammer screws that are perfect duplicates.

Have the trigger guard welded. The later ones are slightly different.

"Patina" can be applied.

[Brian Dudley]

For that early of a gun, either hammer screw pictured could be considered correct. The very early screws had more to f a domed head. Some had a out lip and some did not. The engraving on both screws is correct for a grade 2.

The trigger plate repair would be at the back under the trigger guard when it is installed, so it wouldn't really show when all is said and done.

The broke location of the trigger guard will make for a delicate repair and file work to dress it down, but it will not stick out like a sore thumb in that area. And you can add patina in multiple ways.

[Dean Freeman]

What profession lends itself to fine welding of the type needed for such a delicate repair. We have a machine shop in town that might work. Any suggestions?

Thanks Dean and Brian for your help. I'm interested to learn more about how to patina metal, can anyone point me to some resources for learning how?

[Dean Freeman]

Tom Carter makes hammer screws that are perfect duplicates.

Have the trigger guard welded. The later ones are slightly different.

"Patina" can be applied.

I'm sending the screw and locks to Tom today. Thanks Dean Romig for the
recommendation.
Now onto the hard part... The wood!