A Research Question

[Dean Romig]

I'm conducting some research on some specific markings or stamps found on Parker Bros. barrel tubes and/or on the barrel flats. Pictures below..... The third picture is of a friend's gun.

The P set in a diamond is discussed on page 590 of The Parker Story but is unknown as to its significance.

The P stamped on the flat of the right barrel in the general location of the type of steel is not mentioned, that I can find, in The Parker Story.

I have a Lifter with both of these marks, and my friend's gun does too, but they are not necessarily both stamped on other guns.

I am attempting to discover what these two marks indicate and would greatly appreciate any help I can get. If you have a gun with such mark, please tell us here and please give the serial number of your gun or at least the exact year your gun was made.




.

[Gary Cripps]

12 ga lifter ser# 15063 has the diamond P fore of the right barrel flat.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks Gary - You have answered an important question.

Anyone else?

[David Hendrey]

MR Dean, could it be a plain twist barrel?

[David Hendrey]

Mr Dean, there is a post 5-11-2010 "parker barrels", that is interesting reading.

Candyman

[Dean Romig]

No, that would be designated with a T with a crescent above and below it.

[Robert Rambler]

Serial # 17895, 10ga lifter, damascus, Diamond P on right barrel

# 9848, 10ga lifter, plain twist, Diamond P on right barrel

#15901 10ga Lifter, plain twist, Diamond P on right barrel.

[Bill Murphy]

Robert, are you a closet ten gauge lifter guy? You have now been outed.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks very much fellas. Does anyone have a gun that is a Top Action gun with the P in the diamond?

My focus is also on the P stamped on the barrel flat where the type of steel is stamped.
Does anyone have a gun with such a stamp as pictured on the flats on the guns above?

Thank You for your replies.

[Dave Suponski]

Dean, If the P is stamped on a hammerless gun wouldn't that be Peerless Steel?

[Robert Rambler]

"Robert, are you a closet ten gauge lifter guy? You have now been outed."

:rotf: No Bill, I have a fishtail top lever 10ga too!

Like this one, #51092, Dam, 3 frame. Has the diamond P stamped on the headstock:shock: (just to muddy the water):)

Dean all mine are stamped only on the barrel.

[Drew Hause]

I believe Brad posted this image of a double struck Diamond P on a 1888 toplever

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/17227428/392095902.jpg

and for mas agua prieta, on a forend lug (I have no more infro)

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/17227428/392095903.jpg

[Dave Suponski]

Dean, My grade 2 16 gauge lifter serial number 20121 has the P in a diamond stamp on the right barrel tube as does my grade o top action 12 gauge serial number 26145

[Dean Romig]

OK, I'm beginning to think, because of the various locations the "diamond P" stamp is found, that is must be an inspector's mark.

I'm still stymied about the P in the barrel steel location.

Dave, the mark for Peerless Steel is the crossed P's or as DelGrego has is shown on their chart, crossed flags..... I'm going with crossed P's though.

[Dave Suponski]

Dean, Parker Steel?

[Dean Romig]

Yes, except for the fact that the P I'm looking for is on composite barrels.

[Pat Dugan]

Parker 16316 12 ga Parker Underlifter. The P in the diamond is
below the barrel flat of the right hand barrel. You can see also that the
T symbol for Twist is present. for whatever reason the little light I used made the
picture look blue

Hope this helps

[Bill Zachow]

Why do I think it was a "proofing" stamp? I have it on the forend lug of my grade 1 hammer 16, serial 46550, but not on my other hammer guns.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Bill, I was thinking the same thing, maybe a proof mark? Gary

[Dean Romig]

The only question then is why a "proof" stamp would have been stamped into the wood face of the stock head on Robert Rambler's gun shown above? Shouldn't a proof mark be stamped on the barrels? After all, the stock doesn't need to pass proof.


I am however, still in need of many more examples of the P stamp on the barrel flats of composite barrels. Thanks in advance for your contributions to this research project.

[Dean Romig]

TTT

[Marty Kohler]

Dean....Gun #27588 G grade Hammer 12 gauge has diamond P on bottom of right barrel......

[Dean Romig]

Thanks for that information Marty.

[Chuck Bishop]

Dean,

12ga D grade lifter 17520 has 2 P's on the right barrel
12ga D grade top action 27356 has 1 P on the right barrel

[Dean Romig]

Dean,

12ga D grade lifter 17520 has 2 P's on the right barrel
12ga D grade top action 27356 has 1 P on the right barrel

Thanks very much Chuck.
Can you please show pictures of those marks and tell us what barrel steel is marked on the ribs?

Best, Dean

[edgarspencer]

I believe it's an inspector's stamp. All of our inspectors had their own stamp; a Q with a number inside it. If it was a proof stamp, it couldn't have been stamped by the unfinished tube maker, because it couldn't be fired. If it was a Parker proof stamp, stamped when fired at Meriden, why would the stock be stamped on the head face, which would have required removal from the receiver.

[Chuck Bishop]

Dean, both guns are 3 blade Damascus

The top lever gun has just 1 P but in the same spot on the other barrel is an R.

The lifter has 2 P's next to each other on the right barrel. Just inside the right barrel flat to the left of the weight is H L&C. I'm not sure of the &, it's a funny looking symbol.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks to all who supplied information on the P inside of the diamond. I can now see that particular stamp has no bearing on specific barrel steels, which is the focus of my research.

I do however, still need examples (pictures, serial numbers or year on manufacture) of guns with composite barrels with the P stamped on the barrel flats where the steel type stamp is located.

This is the P I am looking for examples of.



.

[Jean Swanson]

Dean:

As a suggestion , try giving Larry (Bab ) DelGrego a ring and see if he has any knowledge of the "P" significance .I doubt that Lawrence would know, but you can never tell !! My guess---it is an inspectors mark .

Allan

[Dean Romig]

I may do that Allan.

Something I have taken account of is the fact that during the period when the P is observed in that particular location on the right barrel flat Parker Bros. was also producing Damascus barreled guns with a D in that location and Twist barreled guns with a T with a crescent above and below it in that position. The guns I have observed the P on the flat are neither Damascus or Twist, but are marked Laminated on the rib with no L on the flat but a P instead and the pattern on the barrels have variations of a 'herringbone' sort of pattern.

More examples are needed.... "Investigation continues", to coin a phrase.

[bob risser]

#48582,10ga. with twist steel has the diamond half under the rib solder .

[WILLIAM STANELL]

Pressure test?.

[Dean Romig]

At the Southern I had discussed this P stamp (not the P in the diamond) on the right barrel flat where the identifying mark for the barrel steel is normally found. Some said they believed they had one or two or would look at their guns and let me know. Hopefully there are more forthcoming examples of such barrels. Thanks to all contributors of information.

Dean

[Dean Romig]

Have any Parker owners been able to inspect their composite barreled guns for the P stamp referenced in my post above?

If you find this stamp on the right barrel flat of your gun(s) please provide me with the serial number or the year of manufacture.

Thanks, Dean

[Fred Preston]

Dean, 12465 has it located like Bob Risser's and in your first pic.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks but I am no longer interested in the P within the diamond. That stamp does not always reliably fit the category of Parkers I am researching.... in other words, the P within the diamond is found on too wide of a range of Parkers to be at all significant in my research.

I am only interested in the P stamped on the right barrel flat where the stamp indicating the Steel type of the barrels is normally found.

[Fred Preston]

Dean, Have a 12G with PS in a circle in the place you mention and on the left flat is stamped PZZ3. What's that all about?

[Dean Romig]

It seems you have a Grade 2 with Parker Special Steel barrels and the gun, according to the PZZ3 Remingtom code, went back to Remington in June of 1953 for repair work of some kind.

But still not the P stamp on the right barrel flat of a composite steel set of barrels.

Thanks.

[Dave Suponski]

Guy's The PS stamp is used on grade 1(P) fluid steel guns. The PSS stamp is used on grade 2(G) gun's.What grade is your gun Fred?

[Dean Romig]

Will the congregation please turn to page 581 of your hymnals (The Parker Story) for the stamp marks on Parker barrel flats.

[Dave Suponski]

Thanks Dean....:)

[Bill Murphy]

class. CLASS. CLASS. Sr. Mary E.

[Dean Romig]

Is that from the "Firesign Theater"???

...as in Porgy Tirebiter..... OMG, I'm dating (and pigeon-holing) myself :shock:

Sister Mary Elephant....:cool:

[Bill Murphy]

Dean, did you refer to the 2010 thread that one poster mentioned? I seem to recall that some previous research pointed to some composite barrels that were actually forged at Parker Brothers. Do you suspect that the P mark is used on those Parker manufactured composite barrels?

[edgarspencer]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Perfesser, but none of those in the bible appear to be what you are referring to in your quest for knowledge.

[Dean Romig]

In response to Bill's question - Yes, that is my suspicion and I'm trying to get enough data on these guns to be able to nail it down to it being a very high probability that Parker Bros., in fact, manufactured the composite barrels with the P stamped on the right barrel flat without a circle around it, or crescents, or a diamond... just a P by itself.

In response to Edgar's question - Correct, the P by itself without any other mark surrounding it does not appear on that table on page 581 in Volume II of The Parker Story.... or anywhere else that I can find.

[Fred Preston]

Dean, Dave, Here's a pic of the flats of 206850. Definitely 2(G) grade. I have not seen Rem codes like this before; they were smaller font and up close to the lug.

[Dave Suponski]

Thanks Fred. That is how my GHE is marked also.

[Dean Romig]

We more often see the Remington codes closer to the lug but that's a good reference picture.

Thanks, Dean

[Dean Romig]

The location of the Remington stamp may be due to the fact that it was done post-WWII (1953) and the previous location of stamping may have been lost during, or because of the war effort.

[Dean Romig]

I'm still hoping to see more examples from members here of the P stamp on the right barrel flat of Parker composite barrels.




.