Ithaca Damascus Hammer Double

[allen newell]

A friend of mine who owns a local gun shop asked me today if I was interested in buying an Ithaca 12 ga Hammer double. I looked at the gun. Hammers match and function. gun is tight to the face. interior barrels are bright with no pitting etc. 28 inch bbls choked full and mod. Firing pins are ok. no cracks in wood but it is quite dark and might need some de-oiling. Gun appears to be field grade with the standard setter or pointer engraved on the sides of the frame. What stuck me as interesting (unusual ?). was that the chambers are bored to 3 inches. I didn't have a tape to measure the barrels but my guess is that they're about 28 inches. nice Damascus pattern on bbls but will need good cleaning to bring out/restore the true pattern. no dents etc. anyone have any experience with an Ithaca Hammer gun like this? The 3 inch chambers really through me for a loop. Gun is selling for real short money and I might just pick it up for another project. No pics at this time but will take and post if I buy it.

[charlie cleveland]

them old ithacas are good guns..i dont know anything about the 3 inch chambers but would be a plus in my book..if its going for short money it would be mine.what can one more good shotgun hurt...charlie

[Dave Noreen]

We need to see some pictures and have the serial number to know which version Ithaca hammer double it is? The original Ithaca was the Baker Model up to serial number 6549, in 1887. The Baker Model was replaced by the New Ithaca Gun in 1887 beginning with serial number 6550. The NIG was Ithaca's hammer gun, produced and serial numbered concurrantly with the Crass, Lewis, Minier and early Flues Model hammerless doubles up to about 1914. A 1910 vintage NIG --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Ithaca%20and%20Lefever/IthacaNIGLeft.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Ithaca%20and%20Lefever/IthacaNIGGrip.jpg

The NIG was replaced by the Two-Bolt Model hammer gun for 1915, which was pretty much a hammer version of the Flues Model hammerless gun. It disappeared from the Ithaca Gun Co. offerings during WW-I.

Ithaca Gun Co. like all of our manufacturers would chamber for longer shells upon request of the purchaser. In the years Ithaca Gun Co. hammer doubles were being produced, our North American ammunition manufacturers offered paper 12-gauge shells in 2 5/8, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, 3 and 3 1/4 inch lengths. As I've stated many times befor, these long shells didn't come with heavier charges or payloads than could be had in the 2 3/4 inch shell, but more and better wadding which many serious shooters considered an advantage.

[Dean Romig]

Two things to do before you commit to the gun......

1. Check wall thickness at the beginning of the forcing cone/end of chamber.

2. Contact Walt Snyder for information on that particular serial number re: 3" chambers.

[Daryl Corona]

Dave;
Are the case colors on your 1910 NIG original? Nice gun.

[allen newell]

I'll get over to the shop or call them for the serial number and post. The pistol grip on this hammer gun has a flat black cap that reads Ithaca Gun Co. on the cap. The hammers resemble those in the pictures above. Grain in stock is plain and no extra engraving except for the pointing dog on both sides of the frame. Didn't see any colors on the frame or water table remaining. were these guns blued or case colored?

[Brad Bachelder]

Allen

The setters tell me that you are looking at a Flues style frame, New Ithaca Gun.
The tumblers are the weak point in the design. Check the hammers for side play.Excessive play will indicate worn tumblers. I have a pretty good inventory of parts but no new tumblers.
Ithaca used the best quality Damascus and did chamber them in 3". If the barrels, hammers and stocks are sound, it could be a good buy at the right price.
Iam currently restoring a C Grade N.I.G Neat old guns.

Brad

[allen newell]

Thanks Brad. The hammers are tight as a drum with no side play. The inside of the barrels are mirror finish (surprisingly). I ran a cleaning snake thru both barrels and they came our bright (surprised me for an old gun). I was thinking it might be a flues model. the owner is asking $150 and I offered him $100. we'll see. If I get it Brad, you might just get another double from me to restore! It's totally tight to the face with or without the forearm on.

[Brad Bachelder]

Allen
The barrels alone are worth twice that. I hope you get it.

Brad

[allen newell]

Just spoke with the gun shop and believe the seller and I have reached agreement on $125. Will post pics shortly. Brad and John, the serial number is 242615. on the water table it is marked: AA 12. BBls are 32 inches. no side play in hammers

[allen newell]

Some of these pics may not be very sharp, my hand was not stable and lighting could have been better at the shop. serial number indicates this hammer gun was made in 1914.
Here we go;

[allen newell]

more pics

[Dave Noreen]

Wow!! Good buy!! That is the quite scarce Two-Bolt Model. This one has been on GI for some time --

http://www.gunsinternational.com/Ithaca-16-gauge-Coil-Spring-Hammer-Gun.cfm?gun_id=100242606

The entry-level Ithaca hammer doubles were the X with steel barrels, the A with Twist barrels and the AA with Damascus barrels, all essentially the same except for barrel material. The B, C, D, and E all had increasingly finer Damascus barrels, increasing amounts of engraving and finer wood and checkering.

My A-Grade NIG is all original. I suspect the original owner got slapped in the face pretty hard with its 3 1/2 inch drop, and left it in the closet after that!!

[Brad Bachelder]

Great find Allen

As Dave said, a two bolt model. They made less than 300 of these. Its production was at the point in time that Ithaca shifted its emphasis to the hammerless models. The 32" AA barrels ad to the rarity. The bores look perfect.
The early N.I.G.'s used leaf springs and placed the hammer pivot point very close to the back of the frame. It is common to see the frame cracked at the tumbler hole.
The drop at heel is way too much for most shooters. Beyond that a nice piece of American hammergun history.

Brad

[allen newell]

Is it worth restoring? Or just clean it up a bit an hang it on the wall....

[edgarspencer]

A hundred and twenty five bucks? Jeez Allen, did you give the guy the old "Those barrels will blow up" story?
Very pretty Damascus.

[allen newell]

Have not met the seller Edgar. worked though my dealer who took it in on consignment. My dealer's shop is mainly a tactical shop and he's not familiar with doubles of any kind as he seldom has any in the shop. The seller apparently just walked in the other day, said he needed cash and left it with the dealer to sell. My mother dealt with antiques all her life and always emphasized 'buy low - sell high'. The dealer quoted me $150 and I countered. end of story. Edgar, assume you will be at Addieville Saturday. I have a nice little Trojan 20 that Brad has breathed new life into that I'd like to show you.

[Frank Cronin]

Bring it Saturday. Nice gun. Put a new pad on it and shoot it.

[allen newell]

You bet. will order a new pad or repro butt plate tomorrow once I pick it up and can measure it. Will lug it down Saturday.

[allen newell]

Have shot this hammer gun since posting. Dave Suponski was kind enough to measure the barrel wall thickness and determined it's ok to shoot. So I shot it at Addieville last weekend and since at my local club. Much fun since I have never shot a hammer gun before! Since shooting it, I've stripped it and cleaned it thoroughly. Stock and forend have been de-oiled with a solution of TSP and hot water. The minute I put the wood in the TSP solution, the oil just poured out of the wood and turned the solution to a dark coffee look. Changed the solution 5 times before the solution remained fairly clear after 2 days. Wood to be re-finished. I will post pics when the gun is finally re-assembled. Frontier pad on the exterior barrel surfaces with Hoppes and oil has cleaned them up remarkably well. Pics in 2 weeks. Stay tuned.

[allen newell]

Need some advice Here: This hammer gun came with a torn and beat up old Pachmayer recoil pad which I took off and pitched. I am seeking advice on what recoil pad would be most authentic to put on the stock. Have been looking at Galazan's suite of pads but not sure which pad would be most period appropriate (there was no original hard butt plate on the gun). Would a HAWKINS be appropriate? Ithaca Sunburst pad? Silvers ? Please advise. Thanks Allen

[Dave Noreen]

On a 1914 vintage gun like this, a Silvers would be the best bet. Jostam was founded in 1914, but their early pads deteriorated pretty badly. The later Jostam pads have their later patent dates on them. Hawkins and No-Shoc came along in the mid-twenties. The Ithaca "bridge trestle" pad wasn't introduced until 1931-2 Ithaca Gun Co. paper.

[allen newell]

Thanks Dave. Silvers it will be. I've been rubbing the outside of the barrels with Hoppes #9 and Frontier pad and they are looking very nice. I'm oil finishing the wood which will be done in 2 weeks, then the pad goes on and reassemble everything. I've cleaned the frame as well but will leave the metal as is from there. I think it will come out nicely and be fun to poke at sporting clays once in a awhile. Have to order shell next from RST. thanks again.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Looks like a great gun and good buy. I think you did even better than me on my recent pick up of a Grade 3 Lewis Ithaca. I was just offered an even trade on a 5 lb 15 oz Belgian guild 16, straight grip. I kind of like that old Ithaca however, but a 16 would sure get shot/hunted alot more.
I wish my Ithaca had hammers.

[Frank Cronin]

Gotta love the Chain Damascus and the engraving on early Ithaca's.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Birdhunter, I just load and shoot some low/moderate pressure and velocity 2 /34' shells with 3/4 or 7/8 oz.
Some how that purple hull got in the picture, but mine is a 12.