20 gauge 2 1/2 inch loads

[William Davis]

Looking for advice on loading 20 Gauge for my Trojan with 2 1/2 inch chambers. Used the search function not much comes up. Might be asking it wrong.

Is the best bet buying a flat of 2 1/2 inch cartridges then reloading or is there a way to cut back 2 3/4 inch STS or AA's. Imagine I would move the center post on my MEC 600 down one hole. No 2 1/2 inch data on Hodgdon's site either.

Chambers measure about 2 5/8 so far have been shooting low pressure 2/34 inch hulls with 3/4 oz . Works fine just thought the right size would be better.

All advice appreciated


Bill

[Dean Romig]

You'll be fine shooting the shells you're using... and so will your Trojan.

[John Farrell]

If you feel a need to shoot 2 1/2" hulls in your gun there are a number of hull trimmers out there with which you can accomplish that. Precision Reloading (800-223-0900) has a shotshell dismantler, D-Loader, at a reasonable price that will cut the hull in 1/2 for salvaging bad reloads components. PR has a D-Loader Trim Attachment used with the cutter to allow trimming hulls back to 2 1/2". I've been using one similar to it for more than 20 years from Ballistic Products. BP has since come out with a new designed trimmer.

The new BP unit is designed specifically for trimming hulls. You can get it in 20 gauge or any other gauge you want. I haven't used the new one, but its a pretty simple device. Either one will do the job for you.

You might consider, since you're going to trim the hulls to 2 1/2", to start roll crimping, too. Both PR and BP have roll crimping tools that are used in a hand drill or drill press. Of the two tools, I think the PR is the better roll crimper.

[Fred Verry]

Bill, doing a Google search of "2 1/2 20ga. hull / reloading" might prove rewarding.

[Bruce Day]

Mr Davis, Win and Rem 20ga expanded shells are 2 9/16 out of the box, not 2 3/4 as the box cover states. The shells meet the 2 3/4" SAAMI specification tolerance. The length designation refers to the maximum length of shot cartridges in that box, and not to actual length. The extra 1/16 won't make any practical difference in pressure. We get this question a lot and the solution is to actually measure an expanded shell and see for yourself.

I see no real reason to cut back AA or STS shells back 1/16 " , and I'm not sure that would be possible. Even if they were truly 2 3/4", the difference in chamber pressure is only a few hundred pounds, and that would not critical to any gun having acceptable wall thickness, when as you are probably aware, a common 20ga service load pressure is 10,000 psi.

When we teach shot gunning, this issue frequently arises. Some are convinced and have heard tales about dangerous overpressures from shooting longer shells in short chambered guns. While that can be true in extreme examples, the Sherman Bell series of articles in DGJ put that tired issue to rest for those who read the research. We often find gunners who have shot for many years who have never actually measured a shot cartridge and are surprised and learn when they do.

Many photos showing this issue have been posted here and are available using the search function.

[Richard B. Hoover]

Excellent points, Bruce.

Thanks.

Richard

[Larry Frey]

Mr Davis, Win and Rem 20ga expanded shells are 2 9/16 out of the box, not 2 3/4 as the box cover states.

Bruce,
The hang tag pictured below states to use 2 9/16" shells, would that indicate that the chambers for this gun (1924) were made for 2 3/4" shells as you have picture or 2 1/2"?

[Bruce Day]

I have no informed opinion about that. But I do know that a gun so marked will be perfect with the pictured Remington and Winchester shot shell lengths. Not that it matters very much anyway, what with the minimal pressure increase of a true 2 3/4 expanded length shot shell.

So what are the measured chamber lengths for SN 208,485?

[William Davis]

I do understand the chambers are longer than 2 1/2 inches and modern hulls are shorter than 2 3/4 inch. Been shooting it all along with 2 3/4 no problems. Hulls about a 16th of an inch too long expanded.

Was thinking though, since I start with new Rem STS, never range pick up's and reload for the Trojan only might cut them back to shorter, for no good reason other than tailored to my gun.

Found those case cutting tools on Ballistic Products Web site. They also have a guide to loading 2 1/2 inches which I will order. I can see me switching wads to suit shorter and changing the powder charge accordingly. Roll crimp is another complication I would probably rather avoid. Simply run the Mec Jr down one hole and use a folded crimp, no extra labor save the one time hull cut down.

Trouble with Google lately is it's add driven, search 2 1/2 inch 20 it comes up with dozen places selling shells. Scroll down couple of pages links to forums that may be questionable advice wise compared to this one.

Thanks all

Bill

[Bruce Day]

If it is an exercise in building the perfect cartridge, I understand. However, with most handloads, there is more variation in pressure caused by dropping different amounts of powder and shot, and seating the shot cup/wad with varying pressures than is gained by trimming to a precise length.

Then ballistics are never all that precise for a shotgun anyway and the pattern size and density varies in small ways with every shot. Very unlike sniper rifle ballistics and ammunition control.

[Larry Frey]

So what are the measured chamber lengths for SN 208,485?

Not sure yet as it went right to Mr. Chaber for a good cleaning but it will be ready for the Southren so you will see it there. It's an interesting gun as it is a very late Damascus gun.

[Rich Anderson]

I load all 2 1/2 inch hulls from 12, 16, 20 & 410 For everything except the 410 I use RST hulls which are Cheddite hulls and can be ordered through various reloading supply houses. If you come to any of the bigger sxs shoots such as the Southern or hausmanns you can easily scroung once fired RST hulls. I can't get to the load data for my 20ga loads at the moment but I'm using 20/28 powder and 7/8th or 3/4 oz shot charges. These are all low pressure loads, easy on you and your Trojan.

[William Davis]

Rich

How are you crimping ? Roll or fold.

Bill

[Rich Anderson]

Fold, I think it's a six star crimp. I can't get to anything in the gun room as it's chucked full of mounts and stuff as I'm having the basement finished off. They just have trim to do so by the end of next week I can get you my load data. I'm using a Mec 9000 press.

[jim garrett]

Double check your RST hulls. You might find that they are amazingly similar to RIO hulls. Jim

[Dave Suponski]

Jim, RST and Rio are both indeed Cheddite hulls.

[jim garrett]

Cheddite and RIO are two separate companies. Cheddite is an Italian company with plants located in Italy and France and RIO is a Spanish company with plants located in Sp[ain, England and now has a new plant in McEwen, Tennessee in the USA. I shoot quite a few RST shells, particularly in a 2 7/8" 10 gauge, a 2 1/2" 12 gauge, a 2 1/2" 16 gauge and a 2 1/2" 20 gauge. When I started shooting RST's and subsequently reloading them, I also thought they were Cheddite hulls; however, on comparing the headstamps on the hulls with those of Cheddite and RIO I thought they were similar enough for further analysis. I then sectioned a number of shells and it was obvious, at least to me, that the base wad for the Cheddite and RIO shells were different. I then compared base wads in different gauges and determined that RST could be using Cheddite hulls in some of their loads, as is Nobel and Multi Hull by BP and RIO hulls in some of their loads, such as the 2 1/2" 16 gauge lite loads and the 2 1/2" 12 gauge loads...I had no 20 gauge Cheddit hulls to compare. I concluded that nothing is certain when you buy factory loaded shells and as an example, I bought some 2 1/2" hulls with Eley's headstamp that were shipped to Ballistic Products by RIO in a shipping error. The only way to be sure about a shotshell hull is to buy factory hulls from that company, section them, and examine the base wad for comparison with other shells in question. In conclusion, RST, Cheddite and RIO are not the same unless these companies have recently merged.

[Dave Suponski]

Jim, Let me rephrase that last statement RST and Rio hulls use the same loading data. They may not be made by the same company but they are basically the same design. You can have different base wad design and still have the same internal volume.